[Wondergirl]

something like that. There are still societies on this planet where sex outside of marriage is unacceptable. In these societies responsibility is taken seriously particularly to the family not to dishonour the family name. It is only in godless western societies there is this anything goes philosophy

I was going to add no sex until marriage and that can happen only after the successful completion of an intensive 10-week training program, but figured that wouldn't go over well.

[paraclete]

I was going to add no sex until marriage and that can happen only after the successful completion of an intensive 10-week training program, but figured that wouldn't go over well.

No sex police please. You don't need a 10 week intensive training program to avoid sex or to participate in it. Nor is such a program desirable before marriage. What is needed is to go beyond mechanical sex education, which does nothing more than encourage experimentation and deal with moral and ethical matters so that both understand that personal gratification has very undesirable outcomes outside of a long term relationship. In other words less focus on biology and more focus on the importance of personal integrity and self discipline

[Wondergirl]

No sex police please. You don't need a 10 week intensive training program to avoid sex or to participate in it. Nor is such a program desirable before marriage. What is needed is to go beyond mechanical sex education, which does nothing more than encourage experimentation and deal with moral and ethical matters so that both understand that personal gratification has very undesirable outcomes outside of a long term relationship. In other words less focus on biology and more focus on the importance of personal integrity and self discipline

Hmmm, like good sex ed and mentoring and modeling by parents?

[paraclete]

Less sex ed and more mentoring and modelling by all authority figures. It goes beyond the family, everything in western society is allowed to drag morals down to the lowest denominator. There should be greater censorship of media in all forms but particularly film to reduce presentation of casual sex for entertainment and profiteering. The whole society fails to deal with prostitution, deviance and depravity, with pornography and moral issues.

[talaniman]

More sex ed, for parents.

[Wondergirl]

less sex ed and more mentoring and modelling by all authority figures. It goes beyond the family, everything in western society is allowed to drag morals down to the lowest denominator. There should be greater censorship of media in all forms but particularly film to reduce presentation of casual sex for entertainment and profiteering. The whole society fails to deal with prostitution, deviance and depravity, with pornography and moral issues.

Now with cable TV, any time of day there is swearing (*beep*) and references to sex even in family sitcoms. That used to be only in the late evening, if then.

[paraclete]

Now with cable tv, any time of day there is swearing (*beep*) and references to sex even in family sitcoms. That used to be only in the late evening, if then.

As I said, more censorship of media

[talaniman]

I guess half the marriages ending in divorce and parents return to working and dating has nothing to do with the morality thing.

[speechlesstx]

I shutter to respond...
People have sex. Contraceptives fail. A man makes the same mistake and he walks a way if he wants. But don't give a woman a choice...typical.

Oh yes, the horror of having to take responsibility for the risk you took. Anything for an excuse. That should make one 'shudder.'

[speedball1]

I guess half the marriages ending in divorce

Hey! I have the answer to that. Simple! DON'T GET MARRIED!
My roomie, companion and best friend, Teresa Marie, and I have been hooked up for over 18 years and we love each other just as much now as when we first hooked up. In fact,
More!
One of my proudest boasts is that in all the years we've been together we have NEVER had a screaming fight where one of us said, " That's it! I'm done!"
So there's the secret, Hey! Works for us. Just thought I'd share. Tom

[paraclete]

Hey! I have the answer to that. Simple!! DON'T GET MARRIED!
My roomie, companion and best friend, Teresa Marie, and I have been hooked up for over 18 years and we love each other just as much now as when we first hooked up. In fact,
more!!
One of my proudest boasts is that in all the years we've been together we have NEVER had a screaming fight where one of us said, " That's it! I'm done!"
So there's the secret, Hey! Works for us. Just thought I'd share. Tom

Buddy wait till 25 years

[paraclete]

I guess half the marriages ending in divorce and parents return to working and dating has nothing to do with the morality thing.

Divorce is part of the morality thing, people not will to go through with the commitment they made, they model this for children and what do you get, a society that can't make commitment, and when did this get worse, right about the time women were liberated to abort their babies

[talaniman]

Oh yes, the horror of having to take responsibility for the risk you took. Anything for an excuse. That should make one 'shudder.'

Contracepetives, and proper sex education on how to use them both man, and women, is the responsible way to explore, and experiment. This isn't 1960.

[talaniman]

divorce is part of the morality thing, people not will to go through with the commitment they made, they model this for children and what do you get, a society that can't make committment, and when did this get worse, right about the time women were liberated to abort their babies

Abortion has been in practice for thousands of years, its just not something that was just invented.

[speechlesstx]

Contracepetives, and proper sex education on how to use them both man, and women, is the responsible way to explore, and experiment. This isn't 1960.

For the third time now, what is "proper" education? But thanks for repeating my response to her that using contraceptives is a choice. It's still a risk, so accept responsibility for taking that risk - don't punish the natural result, the child.

[speedball1]

Buddy wait till 25 years

And then it gets better?

[paraclete]

Abortion has been in practice for thousands of years, its just not something that was just invented.

No it is something that recently became legal

[paraclete]

And then it gets better?

Yeah buddy they leave

[speedball1]

yeah buddy they leave

Perhaps yours but not mine. We're joined at the hip. You should be sop fortunate, everybody should! Regards, Tom

[talaniman]

For the third time now, what is "proper" education? But thanks for repeating my response to her that using contraceptives is a choice. It's still a risk, so accept responsibility for taking that risk - don't punish the natural result, the child.

Guess you missed it,

The consequences of unprotected sex, and the procedure to not get pregnant. How/when to use an HPT, and having a family doctor for regular check ups, and have procedures available to prevent pregnancy, not just with contraceptives.*

*See my posts about a routine D&C.

Of course it helps to have insurance and most educated females do, even so, its especially important for financially challenged females to know where to go. The only problem is you religious types keep pushing for laws that make that really hard and don't seem to be interested in making sure a female is properly educated to protect herself.

Of course your position of responsibility doesn't cover a guy stepping up, and
Creates a helluva dilemma for females that do it your way, let things take a natural course. The problem with that is when they don't fit into YOUR idea of proper behavior, you make things hard by denying love a support.

On one hand you make them fit your mold, but on the other hand you take away choice and options. In reality this only happens when females are dependent and have no resources, or support, and then both mother and child suffers while you self righteously remove logical choices for unrealistic ones.

Even the ones who do the right things by YOUR standards are subject to the same hardships after a divorce. I get you lobby for unborn children, a noble endeavor, but unless YOU take responsibility for YOUR positions, by giving that love and support, you should mind your own business and take care of your own.