[talaniman]

Think of striving and surviving as a journey, not a destination, and keep on trucking and working to make better adjustments based on facts and not just emotions. (or rhetoric, or opinions).

If you know from many efforts, repeal is not possible, how would you make the current structure better? My opinion is barring single payer, let Amazon .com handle the tech stuff because they got it going on, and have revolutionized on line shopping.

[speechlesstx]

Think of striving and surviving as a journey, not a destination, and keep on trucking and working to make better adjustments based on facts and not just emotions. (or rhetoric, or opinions).

How many of your own side have to declare this a disaster and how many working Americans have to have their premiums doubled and out of pocket tripled before you stop blowing smoke?

[tomder55]

They won't see it until it hits home to them . Notice the one thing both sides managed to do in a bi-partisan manner was to blow away the Vitter Amendment .

[talaniman]

Not so fast on this one Tom, I have read the Vitter fix, and the Grassely fix,

Congress, the Affordable Care Act, and the Myth of the 'Exemption' | Brookings Institution

Second and more painfully, the burden of the Vitter Amendment falls on the shoulders of junior staff. This topic receives little attention, but deserves the most. Junior staffers—staff assistants, legislative coordinators, etc.—are paid the least and have fewer alternative employment options, when compared to their senior colleagues. They are hardworking individuals who often spend their days dealing with angry constituents. The Vitter Amendment targets this group the most. Unlike others who work for large employers they will receive no employer contribution for health care.

Will these employees be able to get affordable health care on the Exchanges? Yes. However, they will be excluded from something millions of Americans enjoy: the employer contribution. In the end, budget debates and their associated political antics have victims. Often times, the federal workforce and government efficiency suffer the most.

[talaniman]

How many of your own side have to declare this a disaster and how many working Americans have to have their premiums doubled and out of pocket tripled before you stop blowing smoke?

You miss the obvious fix to mitigate the sticker shock faced by segments of the population, and the obvious fix carriers could have implemented in the case of private buyers without employee based insurance.

Auto enrollment into their own state exchanges and instead of shocking them with sticker shock the letter would have said relax, its been handled and here is your savings. Don't blame business decisions and tactics on the new law.

[speechlesstx]

You miss the obvious fix to mitigate the sticker shock faced by segments of the population, and the obvious fix carriers could have implemented in the case of private buyers without employee based insurance.

Auto enrollment into their own state exchanges and instead of shocking them with sticker shock the letter would have said relax, its been handled and here is your savings. Don't blame business decisions and tactics on the new law.

Relax, the government sent us here to help you, lol.

P.S. You miss the obvious, automatic enrollment doesn't put the money for the premiums they're FORCED to pay and deductibles in their pockets.

[smoothy]

There are only 5 states which will see on average a price decrease under Obamacare... so much for Obamas promise of saving everyone $2,500 on average.

Enrollment in Obamacare Exchanges: How Will Your Health Insurance Fare?.

Bend over supporters... you wanted it... here it comes. Hope you are happy with your price increases. In fact I hope you choke in it.

[talaniman]

Relax, the government sent us here to help you, lol.

P.S. You miss the obvious, automatic enrollment doesn't put the money for the premiums they're FORCED to pay and deductibles in their pockets.

You pay yours don't you? WHY? Why should you or I pay THEIRS? We do already you know and that's a good thing to YOU?

There are only 5 states which will see on average a price decrease under Obamacare... so much for Obamas promise of saving everyone ,500 on average.

Enrollment in Obamacare Exchanges: How Will Your Health Insurance Fare?.

Bend over supporters... you wanted it... here it comes. Hope you are happy with your price increases. In fact I hope you choke in it.

Before I look is this objective data or one sided winger date you are famous for? Just asking. Never mind, its winger data, isn't it?

[speechlesstx]

You pay yours don't you? WHY? Why should you or I pay THEIRS? We do already you know and that's a good thing to YOU?

Um, Obamacare is going to be subsidizing a lot more people off our tax dollars.

P.S. Look, premiums are down in 5 states. And doubled or more in 11 states.

[speechlesstx]

It just keeps getting better and better. All those really, really smart people in the most transparent regime ever wouldn't hire an outside contractor to create the exchange website because they were afraid they might get subpoenaed by Republicans... so they reportedly stole the code and did it themselves.

Facing such intense opposition from congressional Republicans, the administration was in a bunker mentality as it built the enrollment system, one former administration official said. Officials feared that if they called on outsiders to help with the technical details of how to run a commerce website, those companies could be subpoenaed by Hill Republicans, the former aide said. So the task fell to trusted campaign tech experts.

Even as early as 2010, HealthCare.gov was bug-ridden, a harbinger of problems to come. But few read the tea leaves because the site had a small fraction of the traffic it would get in October 2013.

“The wheels were practically coming off the wagon at that point, which should have been a clue that anything more than this — a nicely branded site with a lot of information and not much interactivity — was going to be impossible,” the former official said.

The code is 10 years old and "may require constant fixes and updates for the next six months and the eventual overhaul of the entire system." Add to that the fact that they intentionally built it to hide the costs before signing up so as not to scare people away from sticker shock and you have got to be shaking your head.

OK true believers, can you really not see valid reasons for our distrust and skepticism?

[talaniman]

Beyond the tax subsidy you know that costs are capped according to income right?

Ezra Klein And Avik Roy Go Mano-A-Mano On Obamacare, Rate Shock, And The GOP Agenda (Video & Transcript) - Forbes

It also has out-of-pocket maximums in terms of what you can pay in premiums and out-of-pocket costs in a year. And if you're under 400% of the poverty line, these trigger for you so you can't pay, I think, at the maximum more than 9% of your income in a year.

ROY: [interposing] Nine and a half.

KLEIN: Yeah, nine and a half. And underneath that, it goes much lower. So if you're making 200% of the poverty line and you're a single, young male adult, you can't pay more than—I don't have the table exactly in my head, but it's 4.5%, 5%. [It's 4.0% of income from 150-199% of FPL, and 6.3% from 200-250% of FPL.]

So you're dealing with an actually quite subsidized kind of insurance, and not just through the direct subsidy, but through what can eventually be asked of you.

And I think that's important because we are saying we are going to cap how much you subsidize. It's not just “If you're young, you're going to be giving a huge subsidy to the old.” It's “If you're young and you're having trouble, we're going to help you too.”

Please take time to read the whole thing as it's an interesting and informative conversion, but complex and nerdy. Video available. Or you can keep hollering in generalities.

@Smoothy, That winger site you linked are extrapolations and completely devoid of income levels or even the data for present costs in age categories fails to take into account that by law have to be included on out of pocket costs calculations. Without those adjustments the chart is incomplete. Maybe after April they can add that data. Until then all the costs are guestimates.

[tomder55]

Not so fast on this one Tom, I have read the Vitter fix, and the Grassely fix,

Congress, the Affordable Care Act, and the Myth of the 'Exemption' | Brookings Institution

The Obamacare statute states very clearly that all Members of Congress and their staffs are to procure their health insurance through the Obamacare Exchange. Section 1512 of Obamacare says clearly that employees going to the Exchange lose their previous employer subsidy.
So if they don't like it then let them go work for real employers or let Congress fix the bill legislatively instead of having the emperor make another decree from on high ,in the middle of an August recess, when no one was paying attention . Not only that ,his OPM then made a decree that Congress was a small business that hires less than 50 people to take advantage of the Obamacare provisions related to small businesses. More bs exceptions for the privileged class in the belt way. Who has it better ? The staffer on capitol hill or the person who is now forced to work part time because of this ridiculous law? Would a staffer switch with that worker ? No ;just the opposite . These staffers put their time in Capitol Hill and then leave for lucrative positions on K Street . Screw them . Let them be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

[paraclete]

Screw them . Let them be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

But Tom you want to negate the whole basis of your society, one law for the rich ,another for the poor, one law for the politicians, another for the plebs. You cannot have one law for all, you have been down that road.. with the black population it took you a hundred years to sort out the mess and you aren't really there yet and yet you want one law for all. You already have it, I think it is called the Constitution and yet you can't agree on how to apply it

[tomder55]

There are only 5 states which will see on average a price decrease under Obamacare... so much for Obamas promise of saving everyone ,500 on average.

Enrollment in Obamacare Exchanges: How Will Your Health Insurance Fare?.

Bend over supporters... you wanted it... here it comes. Hope you are happy with your price increases. In fact I hope you choke in it.

Yes ,mine is one of them because we've had Mario-care for 20 years and were already paying some of the highest premiums because of the mandates... (guaranteed issue and community rating ) . What NY has is now coming to the rest of the country.

[speechlesstx]

Based on the intentional chicanery I repeat my question, can you really not see reasons for our distrust and skepticism? Only a fool would say we don't have legitimate gripes.

[smoothy]

Sky high prices,deductibles that scare off just about everyone that can get through the broken website and now :

Insurers say the federal health-care marketplace is generating flawed data that is straining their ability to handle even the trickle of enrollees who have gotten through so far, in a sign that technological problems extend further than the website traffic and software issues already identified.

Emerging errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations, say executives at more than a dozen health plans

Obamacare woes widen as insurers get wrong data - MarketWatch

But some of the Democrats that live in a fantasy world think things are proceding without major problems.

[talaniman]

While many of us acknowledge and share your concerns, we aren't ready to give up after just two weeks, and no doubt you will keep hollering from the sidelines until it is.

But do you have to copy and paste duplicate posts on several threads?

[smoothy]

While many of us acknowledge and share your concerns, we aren't ready to give up after just two weeks, and no doubt you will keep hollering from the sidelines until it is.

But do you have to copy and paste duplicate posts on several threads?

Two threads same topic......so yes I did.

Less than 1% of those who actually managed to register, which itself was a tiny fraction of those that tried... actually was able to even get insurance.

That is the classic definition of an unmitigated disater... only a liberal could try to spin that into anything else.

[tomder55]

Bold prediction... within 3 months ,the emperor will be asking for a 1 year delay.

[speechlesstx]

Bold prediction... within 3 months ,the emperor will be asking for a 1 year delay.

I bet it doesn't take that long.