[Allheart]

Lacey -

You have incredible advice and insight already. I will just add a little more -

Love and trust your daughter. I know you do, and it is normal to be a little fearful, when the very values and teachings that you have instilled in your daughter are being questioned.

Pray for her, that she will make the very best decision and be there for her. That's really all that is left for you to do. You have spent years teaching her values, teaching her morals, introducing her to God, and I am sure you have done a beautiful job, as I said, all that is left for you to do, is to love her, trust her and be there for her.

Sadly, this will not be the first time someone approaches your daughter and questions her faith, tries to get her to doubt her faith. It's a big huge at times wonderful at times not so wonderful world out there. There will be days filled with temptation, doubt, choices for your daughter to make. You have given her all the tools you possilbly can to allow her to make the right choice. Trust in the work and love you have given her to date.

She will be okay - trust, believe and PRAY :)

[Lacey5765]

You all have been a great help to me. I really am a stable person. Believe it or not I actually work in the mental health field. As to the Mormons knocking on your door, I hope they politely asked if you wanted to know more about the LDS religion. And if you said "no" that they didn't offer you anything criticising your faith. Again, I know that my daughter needs to and will discover for herself what is best for her. My concern is that this was brought on by the boyfriend. All of her life she has explained and defended her beliefs to others and was never shaken. My worry is that this exploration was brought on for the wrong reasons. That being to please the boyfriend. I have not mentioned his faith because I do not want to leave negative impressions of his faith. He plans to be a minister and thus wants a wife of the same faith. Noble, but I just wish that he would find someone of his faith instead of trying to make my daughter into that person. I say I am angry, maybe more scared and hurt. Again he is not a bad person and he may truly think he is saving her from this terrible religion. But it can't be all bad right? That is who she is and what attracted him to her to begin with.

[RubyPitbull]

I agree with you Lacey. The values you instilled in her was a part of what attracted him to her in the first place.

Just keep in mind that what the others have said is true. Your daughter is an adult and she will come to her own decisions. Do not force or push her to do anything that she doesn't want to do. If you find that whatever you do falls on deaf ears (meaning your daughter), all you can do is provide the love and support you have always given her and let her know that you will always be there for her. She will need to hear that from you.

[magprob]

Dear Mom and Dad (or friends or family),

I (or we if leaving as a couple or family) have been doing some major thinking and studying over the past few years regarding our religion. My intention in writing this is only to be honest with you, and I hope you will be open minded as you read on. Please mull it over for several days before discussing it with anyone as it may be a bit shocking at first. It will be better if some initial time is used to sort out your feelings.


I feel that growing up in the church has offered many positive benefits and opportunities. In particular, we are grateful for the emphasis on family values, good morals, and honesty. However, we have some concerns about Mormonism and raising our kids in the church. I don’t want to go into details because I know of your strong belief and love for the gospel, and I respect your choice of beliefs. I want you to know that my emerging beliefs are not in vast conflict, as far as morals go, with those of the church. We have no desire to change the good standards of living that we have been taught, and plan to nourish those in the kids as well.

Basically, I’d like to continue to grow in an environment which allows a less restrictive view of life, and I'd like our kids to have those same opportunities. I want to raise them in such a manner that they will achieve their fullest potential without having to go through some of the guilt and pressures that may be unnecessarily felt by LDS youth. I don’t think that raising them in a church which claims to be "the one true church on earth", and personally not believing this, would do them any good. I want them to have the freedom to live out their own thought-out convictions. I also want to be totally honest with each other and the kids. Pretending to believe is no longer an honest option.

My personal reasons for doing this are based on a great deal of research (several years worth), and this turn of events has in no way been a hasty decision. The initial conclusions that I was drawing were very painful to me at first, but in the long run it has been a positive experience. My personal integrity has been preserved in the process.

It is not my intention to hurt you by making this choice. You are my parents, and I love and respect you both. You have done nothing to cause this change of events in our lives. We personally must follow our own paths. I hope that you can respect that. We are hoping that our relationship with the family and our friends will continue to be as good as it has been in the past. Our love for you and the family hasn’t changed, and we hope you will remember this first and foremost.

Love, Mormon Youth

Exmormon.net - About This Ministry

[chaplain john]

Lacey
Time for one of those much maligned Fundies(as we have been called on another forum) to weigh in. I am a Pentecostal preacher. Wait, before you go click and leave me you might be surprised by what I have to say.

My youngest daughter's former mother-in-law was a Latter Day Saint and I personally have probably never seen a woman who loved the Lord any more than she did. I have known many LDS through the years and have never had a complaint about their morals, values or anything else about them.

A word about some of the Fundies (funny the word as used was meant to be derogatory like "holy rollers" used to be... but I kind of like it... It's a lot shorter than fundamentalist Christian) who go about handing out the anti LDS literature do so not out of hatred but out of love... They are completely in the dark about your religion.

This young man may be laboring in the same kind of ignorance. He may think that he is doing your daughter a kindness.

You have received some wonderful advice here and I have chimed in to add my support to the idea of wrapping your daughter in the love that I know your church is capable of delivering.

I wish you the best and suggest that you make a point of inviting the young man along occasionally. He might learn something.

I have said more than once that I would like to Pastor a church of fifths.
One fifth Pentecostals to teach how to yield to the Holy Spirit.
One fifth Baptists to teach how to study the Bible.
One fifth Black to teach how to worship and raise a joyous sound to the Lord.
One fifth Jehovah Witness to teach how to work for the Lord.
And Last but not least one fifth LDS to teach how to take care of one another.

Blessings,
Chaplain John

[RubyPitbull]

chaplain john, although I do not disagree with your advice to Lacy, and I do not want to engage in a major religious discussion here and hijack this lady's posting, I am curious as to why, in your "fifths", four are religions and one is a race. Frankly, I have a problem with the entire "fifths" listing, but that race one is truly bothersome to me. Why are you pulling a race into it? There are many blacks who follow the teachings of all the religions you listed. Your listing suggests you are a racist. If we get into more than a few postings about this, I will suggest we start a separate thread to discuss it. As I stated, I do not want to get off topic when this nice lady is looking for constructive advice. But what you stated bothers me tremendously.

[Tuscany]

It bothers me as well.
Why are we bringing race into this discussion.
I would love to hear what John has to say about why he grouped his groupings like this.


Lacy would also like to point out that it is important that you do not push the boy away. In doing so you might push your daughter away.

[Fr_Chuck]

I will be honest the ones who it brothers has to be white, and never been to a black baptist or methoist or funalmentalist church.

I go to a 99 percent black church ( I am basically the only white person except on Easter or Christmas) And when we vist the white churches they look at me strange when I say AMEN to what the preacher says, or hold my hands up in prayer or get excited when I preach

I am not saying it is all black churches or all white churches, but honestly I preach in all of them and within the same denominations, there are differences in how on "averge" they do in worship.

Just making true statements about how certain ethnic groups worship is not racist, it is really just true. Not for each person, but over all it really is.

[Capuchin]

I don't see this as racism, but poor math and logic behind separating race from religion. He certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. He obviously means he would like to see all these kinds of people in his church, so that he can enjoy what he sees as a fulfilling christian community.

He more likely meant he would like a quarter of all the religions there, and a mishmash of them to be black (you can't say that there is no difference between the races in christianity, it may be slightly stereotyped but it seems to be true on the average the they celebrate more outwardly joyously, this isn't racism.).

I don't really see anythign to take offence to.

[Tuscany]

Well I believe that you are wrong Fr. Chuck.

I have been to an African American Church. I have been a number of times actually. My boyfriend all through college was an african american whose father was the pastor of a church in Yonkers NY. I spent a lot of time with their family and going to church. I can honestly say though that I never thought of them as "Black Baptists." I just thought of them as Baptists. And yes church was fun, the community feeling that I found there was outstanding.

However, in my "White Catholic" church I find the same sense of community. I think religon is religon, and race is race. When you combine the two you are stepping into murky water.

[chaplain john]

I am a long way from being a racist!

I included the black race because the black churches with whom I have had opportunity to worship, and there have been more than a few, have had a Joyful freedom to their worship that is such a wonderful thing to see and be a part of...

The black churches with whom I have experience just seem to have learned, probably through all the trials they have had, a way of putting their troubles down, getting their minds and eyes upon the Lord and worshiping him to the fullest. This, I think, is an ability that all who worship God should learn.

The statement was not meant to demean in any way.

If anyone was offended I offer my most humble and abject apologies. But as for me being a racist I take offense at that inference.

Blessings,
Chaplain John

[RubyPitbull]

I have said more than once that I would like to Pastor a church of fifths.
One fifth Pentecostals to teach how to yield to the Holy Spirit.
One fifth Baptists to teach how to study the Bible.
One fifth Black to teach how to worship and raise a joyous sound to the Lord.
One fifth Jehovah Witness to teach how to work for the Lord.
And Last but not least one fifth LDS to teach how to take care of one another.

Blessings,
Chaplain John

My exact thoughts Tuscany.

I am sorry Fr Chuck and Capuchin. I do not agree with your assessments. I will say that I have seen some of Chaplain John's posts and from what I have seen, he is a nice respectful man. I was truly dismayed when I saw the above. As I stated, it is not just the racial implications in this statement but this statement as a whole that I have a problem with. The racial aspect I found particularly glaring.

Fr Chuck, I understand what you are saying but what is written here suggests that Blacks do not know "how to worship or raise a joyous sound to the Lord." There are many black baptists that would vehemently disagree with this statement as Tuscany states. I know many as well. They would not take kindly to this.

I know a black Jehovah Witness that would resent someone stating that they can "teach how to work for the Lord." I know this person believes that she has been taught how to do this properly. I grew up with a white Jehovah Witness who would also be offended.

I dated a Pentecostal in my younger days and although our religious differences were what broke us up, he would be livid to read that someone wanted to teach him "how to yield to the Holy Spirit."

I suspect that Lacey would resent his implication that LDSs do not know how to take care of one another.

It is fine for Chaplain John to state that he would like a mixed and varied congregation. That is a wonderful thought. But, the way he has chosen to express himself, suggests that these people he lists do not know how to do this now. How egotistical and condescending is that?

I have more to say, but I have to sign off for a while.

P.S. I just saw your post above mine Chaplain John. I will be back.

[Capuchin]

No, Ruby, you are reading it wrongly (I believe).

He isn't saying that they need to be taught, he is saying the opposite, that they are best placed to teach these things because of their beliefs and the way they celebrate.

Yes, it is worded awkwardly, and now I see why you are worried. But it can be understood another way (I believe you are not reading it how he meant to say it)!

[NeedKarma]

Wow Ruby, you totally misread what John wrote. Totally.

[Capuchin]

Try putting in where he says "to teach how to" change it to "to teach us how to". I believe this is what he meant to say. He doesn't want to teach! He wants to be taught!

[Lacey5765]

I agree that all religions and good people have much to teach, and we all have much to learn. Thanks for your thoughts on my concerns. By the way PBS is presenting a documentary on the Mormons, April 30th and May 1st. See FRONTLINE + American Experience: The Mormons: Preview Site | PBS

[Tuscany]

Again I will state. Religon is religon, black, white, blue, purple or pink. Its worshipers are its worshipers. And color should not matter.

John, I don't think of you as a racist at all. But I think you are generalizing. And that is not fair. I would like to think that my "white church" can raise their voices to the lord as well as a "black church."

[magprob]

First, I think "casting the stone" of racism here is out of line. Second, I just love a good, black gospel singing group. They just get into it Mo Betta!

[chaplain john]

Beside each group listed is a trait, or ability that I most admire about that group. It is something that, in my experience, shows in a very large percentage of that group. My Idea would be to have members of one group or another lead the others into a greater understanding of their (for lack of a better word coming to mind) specialty.

I admire the Witnesses ability to keep on going even after the door being slammed in their face or being reviled by someone.

I admire the way Latter Day Saints encourage and help one another. I know that you don't see LDS in Welfare lines because they have their own system of support. The rest of us should have a support system built into our churches like that.

I know Baptists (lay people) who, I'm sorry to say, have a better knowledge of the Bible than I do. And I'm a minister licensed by a pretty fair sized denomination.

I'm sorry Tuscany I didn't mean to infer that all white churches didn't know how to worship because my own can get pretty loose sometimes but my experience (and I see Fr Chuck has had similar experience) has been that the preponderance of black fundamentalist and evangelical just seem to have figured out how to lay down their problems, turn to God, focus completely on him and give to him everything that is within themselves.

That is something that garners my utmost admiration.

To those of you who were able to see through my poor wording and tried to explain for me I can't thank you enough.

To those who didn't understand... If you will email or PM me I'll try to explain and then clarify my post. I welcome constructive criticism.

I never, ever mean to downgrade, belittle, or offend anyone. If I use a poor choice of words sometimes, I beg you, blame it on the fact that the gray matter that used to be in my head is leaking out my chin turning my red beard gray.

Apologies and Blessings,
Chaplain John

[RubyPitbull]

Chaplain John, thank you so much for explaining this. I do appreciate your taking the time. I am glad that NeedKarma, Fr Chuck, and Capuchin were able to see what I didn't. We all have our off days and sometimes don't read things the way the poster intended. I apologize for stating that "your listing suggests you are a racist" and just generally jumping all over you here. As I stated, I saw your earlier postings and you struck me as a nice and respectful man. I am glad that my original assessment was correct. Please pardon my misinterpretation of your intent.