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joypulv · Jan 20, 2016, 08:32 AM

SCOTUS decisions do get overturned on occasion. I'm not sure if they were naive about all the ways to move money around or if they really thought that free speech was the clincher. I agree that it's serious. Big Money is much more sophisticated than in the past, any past, but the end result is the same. It's nothing new to buy politicians.

I'm always amazed by how many people think the past was a lot rosier than the present. It NEVER is; it's just different in some ways and not others. We bumble along and it works better than any other option of government. Term limits will solve NOTHING. Caps on CEO salaries by anyone other than investors and boards will solve NOTHING. There are no sound bites, no quick fixes, no apps for that. A survey of employers about young workers found that the young want to work and even do a good job, but the minute they finish their first project, they expect a promotion and a raise.

talaniman · Jan 20, 2016, 08:45 AM

Capitalism is a rigged game, and that's what makes wealth obscene. It's an OLD game, and only the name has changed to protect the greedy. Do you believe Trump when he says he wants everybody to be rich?

NeedKarma · Jan 20, 2016, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by joypulv

... but the minute they finish their first project, they expect a promotion and a raise.

Because that's how it used to be - your job was your career, your company mentored you and promoted you. Now not so much, you're low-value chattel, infinitely replaceable.

paraclete · Jan 28, 2016, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Because that's how it used to be - your job was your career, your company mentored you and promoted you. Now not so much, you're low-value chattel, infinitely replaceable.

That was rae even then. The mentor bit anyway, that is a word that krept in in the 90's

talaniman · Jan 29, 2016, 06:04 AM

Wealth is obscene when the boss sucks all the money a company makes and shares NONE with the workers that help him make it!

Wealth is obscene when the boss screws up the company and the workers lose their jobs.

Wealth is obscene when the bosses screw up the world and the workers lose their jobs.

Wealth is obscene when you get a job and need taxpayer assistance to pay for food rent and heat.

Wealth is obscene when workers need TWO or THREE jobs to make ends meet to have a LIFE.

Wealth is obscene if you can employ slave labor for high end products and beech about the high cost of labor.

Wealth is obscene when take your profits to buy government officials to give you more tax breaks and shelters, and waive the rules of regulations that ensure clean air, water, and soil for ordinary people.

Wealth is obscene when rich people rig/run the whole economic system and call it fair.

Wealth is obscene when the boss runs your country and YOU don't.

Wealth is obscene when it allows you to control lives, and not bear responsibility.

Wealth is obscene when it puts you above and beyond the laws of ordinary citizens.

Wealth is obscene when it's used by the few to control the many...................

ebaines · Jan 29, 2016, 02:08 PM

Talaniman - I'm trying to figure out how to apply your definitions. Imagine this scenario: a person starts a lawn maintenance company, buys a couple of trucks and some mowers on credit, and hires 6 seasonal workers at $15/hour to mow lawns. After the summer mowing season is over he realizes he has burned through all his cash and can't afford to keep paying on the loans for for the equipment, and so declares bankruptcy. He lays the workers off, shuts down the business, and gets a job as a clerk at Walmart. Does this person have obscene wealth? He falls into at least 4 of your definitions, and maybe as many as 6. The point is that you have classified virtually anybody who hires people and tries to build a profitable business as having obscene wealth.

paraclete · Jan 29, 2016, 02:11 PM

So Tal having identified the reasons and found all of them in daily operation what solution do you propose?

talaniman · Jan 29, 2016, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by ebaines

Talaniman - I'm trying to figure out how to apply your definitions. Imagine this scenario: a person starts a lawn maintenance company, buys a couple of trucks and some mowers on credit, and hires 6 seasonal workers at $15/hour to mow lawns. After the summer mowing season is over he realizes he has burned through all his cash and can't afford to keep paying on the loans for for the equipment, and so declares bankruptcy. He lays the workers off, shuts down the business, and gets a job as a clerk at Walmart. Does this person have obscene wealth? He falls into at least 4 of your definitions, and maybe as many as 6. The point is that you have classified virtually anybody who hires people and tries to build a profitable business as having obscene wealth.

By definition he has no wealth, just debts and high hopes. By definition he is an entrepreneur or small businessman with a failed business. Hardly qualifying him as wealthy, so he fits in NO category. Unlike say a Donald Trump, whose bankruptcies have never landed him in Walmart's employ. Or a GWBush who had 7 bankruptcies and ruined a baseball team, and still ended up president.

Do you grasp my distinction about obscene wealth now? Wealth is obscene when you are too rich to fail, or JAIL!

Originally Posted by paraclete

So Tal having identified the reasons and found all of them in daily operation what solution do you propose?

Unfortunately Clete it's going to take many election cycles of increased participation by informed voters........at least in the US. Or at least enough with common sense, and a sense of the common good.

paraclete · Jan 30, 2016, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Unfortunately Clete it's going to take many election cycles of increased participation by informed voters........at least in the US. Or at least enough with common sense, and a sense of the common good.

What you have said there is that bankruptcy is almost a qualification for President, perhaps if you could have an elected cabinet just as you have an elected president you would have a broader group to choose from

paraclete · Feb 5, 2016, 04:41 PM

'Mr Teflon': Sydney's showiest politician comes unstuck - BBC News

proving the apple doesn't fall far from the tree a Sydney millionaire is following in the footsteps of his father, very soon he will be jailed, the charges range from corruption to well who knows. He has made obscene use of his wealth and influence in recent months and may even be the reason for the dismissal of an Urban local government Council. Dealings include a deal where the council sold him a property which may have been significantly under valued. His wife even had the termerity to allege they may loose money because of his suspension.

One could even say he has given fuel to the idea we don't want muslims here, their moral values are lacking

tomder55 · Feb 14, 2016, 12:53 PM

When does wealth become obscene?

There is no such thing as 'obscene wealth'; it is a phrase fabricated by those who would facilitate the redistribution of wealth by setting economic classes against each other .
There are those who acquired their wealth by illegal ,or even immoral means .THEY are obscene, not wealth.But if they got their wealth legally and by moral means ,they are not obscene regardless of how much they've accumulated . Avarice may be one of the deadly sins(as is envy btw) . But that is between humans and their maker . What is a big obscenity is thinking a government has the right to determine how much wealth person in a free society can accumulate ;or the confiscate that wealth based on a pretext that the person has enough wealth.

Wondergirl · Feb 14, 2016, 12:59 PM

What if the wealthy person uses every trick in the book, every possible loophole, to prevent his wealth from being taxed fairly?

tomder55 · Feb 14, 2016, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

What if the wealthy person uses every trick in the book, every possible loophole, to prevent his wealth from being taxed fairly?

Why are there loopholes ? That is the fault of the government that creates loopholes to favor tax evasion.

catonsville · Feb 14, 2016, 01:10 PM

I doubt that little people get to use the loop-holes like the big boys and corps. Loop-holes are put there intentionally, don't you think?

Wondergirl · Feb 14, 2016, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Why are there loopholes ? That is the fault of the government that creates loopholes to favor tax evasion.

I wonder who was in charge when loopholes were created? And who was financially behind those in charge?

tomder55 · Feb 14, 2016, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by catonsville

I doubt that little people get to use the loop-holes like the big boys and corps. Loop-holes are put there intentionally, don't you think?

of course they are . They are put there for 2 reasons . 1 social engineering . The government thinks it is a better manager of other people's money so they confiscate it to allegedly achieve a social goal. 2. The government is trying to be a top down manager of the economy . So they permit loopholes so they can decide the winners and losers .

tomder55 · Feb 14, 2016, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I wonder who was in charge when loopholes were created? And who was financially behind those in charge?

Both sides are at fault if you are talking about political parties . Now you will blame the rent seeking person who is trying to gain favor by giving a donation . I say that it is the government that makes laws that is at fault . The government holds all the cards because they make the laws of the land . If they are corrupted by money then it is up to we the people to throw them out of office.

NeedKarma · Feb 14, 2016, 01:35 PM

If they are corrupted by money then it is up to we the people to throw them out of office.

But that rarely happens and they are mostly all corrupted by money. What now?

catonsville · Feb 14, 2016, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Both sides are at fault if you are talking about political parties . Now you will blame the rent seeking person who is trying to gain favor by giving a donation . I say that it is the government that makes laws that is at fault . The government holds all the cards because they make the laws of the land . If they are corrupted by money then it is up to we the people to throw them out of office.

So right, look at what happened in Oregon. The little guys stood up with a legitimate argument and they get slapped down without the possibility of addressing their question in a court of law. Power Corrupts right or wrong. So much for standing up against corruption.

tomder55 · Feb 14, 2016, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by catonsville

So right, look at what happened in Oregon. The little guys stood up with a legitimate argument and they get slapped down without the possibility of addressing their question in a court of law. Power Corrupts right or wrong. So much for standing up against corruption.

Refresh my memory .What corruption were they protesting when they took up arms and occupied a wild life refuge ? That was a strange hill to take a stand on.