[Hyouka]

I don't mean to be rude but you don't have a clue.

I also don't mean to be rude, but you sound like those Christians, who are actively denying evolution, and insisting that god exists, while providing only a single argument : "Just because".

You think if she stops talking to these boys she will change.

If she stops talking to them, she would have changed already the way I want and opened a new page in her life, a bright page with me.

Why should she not talk to her friends for you?

Why would she stay in touch with a few fake friends, who only want to get into her pants, and nothing else? She has many friends, there's only a couple guys like these, though those guys are trying to stay in touch all the time.

My young friend you have just begun to identify the things in yourself and about yourself that you must deal with, and have not yet even faced the challenges of life.

I agree 100% with you, I haven't got many responsibilities, not yet. And I must be prepared for what life throws at me. I'm not sure if my life will be way harder, or I already experienced the pain that life throws at us, just in a smaller proportion and more gentle form.
Although, life is hardly predictable, we can still stay on top. I can't recall precise number(don't take it as a linear fact), but we have no control over 50-70% of our lives, there are some things you just can't plan for. Can't chose parents, their wealth, or control other people's actions. But we can definitely change our surroundings, chose the people we stay in contact with, places we go -- choose a better environment, with a better chance, of meeting our goals, wishes and dreams. Choosing a better environment, which let's you change for the better and succeed. For example, getting rid of people, who drag us down(My girlfriends past partners, in my case, they only get in the way, and bring no advantages, and are actively trying to sabotage our relationship --- she doesn't see it that way : "Just because").
I studied this particular topic(about controlling our life). I have a way of dealing with it, actually, I'm a person, who'd rather improvise and let things fall into their places. But when I plan, and am able to make most of unpredictable situations, I maximize the chances, of reaching what I want. Logical , isn't it?

To clarify : My plan might not work, but I am flexible enough, and can fit into any environment , even if I don't like it. Though I will try, to set on to the best path(environment) and make the most of it(my current situation as well).

P.S. I must admit, I've changed so much, after starting this topic. (Learned to accept the reality, got more carefree and even happy go lucky, became less serious, a happier and a more enjoyable person to be with overall, while retaining my ideals. This is the only things that my girlfriend wanted. I believe, I've took a huge step forward, since joining this community. Satisfaction of my relationship is skyrocketing , becoming better by the day.

P.P.S

Nature makes sure we fall in love with the most incompatible person in the entire universe……the person least capable of meeting our needs and most capable of making our worst nightmares come true.
Yet they are the PERFECT person to push our every button and force us out of our comfort zone to ADAPT and GROW.

But of course, when we fall in love, we don't see our partner's flaws. If we knew about them, we'd run like hell in the opposite direction…

Source . I may be clueless, unwise, or even stupid from some perspective. But at least, I sidestepped the traditional way in which relationships work, realized our differences way sooner, and got a turmoil as a consequence. But this way, I got an ability to plan out my dating life, essentially - my whole life :)

[Precious7]

Ok, I understand that it feels sometimes bad, jealousy or (whatever you can name it) to see the one we love and hope good for, going back in the past and dragging the past people/ thoughts/ stories, things in the New relationships, which possibly may create hindrances in the new relationship. But understand that girl also, she is 17, probably she may not be able to understand fully (even though she says she understands) how this people from her past is affecting you or your relationship. You may be very mature and have better understanding but SHE is a different human being, her way, level of growth could be different. Leave it on nature, you probably said or did what you can. Now when she will continue to grow she will understand by herself. Now if you wish or you can sense that its going to get change then you wait for her to figure out it by herself on her time. And if you don't think this change is going to happen ever then, you are free to take any decision.
Now for you, I understand that you understand about relationship very well, but Its one thing to think that marriage is going to be like what you believe in your post and its another thing to actually be in a marriage and experience on your own. " If you worry about marriage is not going to work then let me tell you, marriage is not what makes you happy, it makes you a better person and give another level of personal growth, marriage doesn't create problems it reveals problems, when you marry probably what you may think about yourself is not a big deal, but it can be big deal for others. And as you yourself said there is less probability of finding person who is just like you. I would add that there is not at all any chance of finding person just like you. There is going to be some difference.

But I simply can't find any girls(not taken) my age , who at the very least, share the same ideals. So I must give it a shot, and try to convince her to get those past boyfriends(who want to take her away sincerely or secretly -- and at least for a short time -- she knows this, and she chooses me - a long term partner

So, there you go, there is a little place where you still need to grow. You say you need pure love and do pure love. But If you had many options you wouldn't have even consider it giving any shot. You are considering because you don't have any choice. A True love is "Unconditional". Search your heart first and slow down a little bit you both not only need to grow up a more individually but together too. :)

[Precious7]

I love Science, I love it but I know Evolution theory is a "THEORY." Science is not separate subject from God's stuff . Science is just exploring, discovering what has already been created by the Creator. Scientist have invented and discover many big things, and we are living our life comfortably today bcos of those big discoveries and invention but I am sure they are not the one who created those things which they discovered about.

[Homegirl 50]

I am a Christian and I don't deny science. Your immaturity is showing young man. You may get this girl to stop talking to her friends but it won't be because she has changed, but because you have manipulated her.
I don't know why you insist on being with her sense you seen to have such low regard for who she is. You need to experience life and grow and so does she and you don't need a girlfriend to do that. You're only 19. What is the rush with tying yourself to someone and how does it benefit her to tie herself to you?

[Hyouka]

Precious17, I should give her time to realize , what hindrance they are, but I wouldn't say I'm a patient man, not really, you can see I'm mature for my age and it's because of that, because I'm not patient.
As for marriages, I don't really have an opinion on what they're like, so I tend to agree with you, but I have an opinion, that you marry someone, whom you are happy to spend the rest of your life, and have already been through enough, grew up together and definitely know that he/she is the one.

About religion and God, I did say I'm agnostic, it means, I won't believe it until I see it.
It's true that, there is no theory how we are alive, or even matter came to be, did anything just suddenly appear?
If god created everything, then how he came to be, who "created" him? Or how new souls are born? But I'd rather not discuss this any further. And the great thing about science, it's that it's real, whether you believe it or not. I'm not denying god, but I'm also not saying he exists, for all we know, he may be a flying spaghetti monster :).

You may get this girl to stop talking to her friends but it won't be because she has changed, but because you have manipulated her.

That's true, but in manipulating her, I'm changing her, changing her for the better, and I know, if she knew what was going on, she would want to change the situation, because she has been cheated on as well and she wants no hindrances as well. Nevertheless, I see manipulation as a last resort , I would be happier myself if she simply realized, what is actually going on.

I don't know why you insist on being with her sense you seen to have such low regard for who she is.

You probably base this assumption on my previous Question Post, it's wrong. I have very high regard for her, I learned to let the past go, for the sake of future. She is great, the only thing I want to change in her, is the naivety.
Ignorance is a bliss, but it also ruins relationships.

You need to experience life and grow and so does she and you don't need a girlfriend to do that.

I hit a wall, without relationships, I have very little room to grow, but just for now, I'm nowhere close to perfection nor ever will be.

You're only 19. What is the rush with tying yourself to someone and how does it benefit her to tie herself to you?

Because I value purity of love, as I get older, the girls who share this look will be already in a relationship(very likely, I already know of couples like this) .
And the only one's left, will still be happy go lucky or with broken hearts - hopeless. They will either be in so many relationships with "Love" which fades, the concept of pure love will be acceptable to them like a God to atheists.
Also, they will be so used to living carefree, that it will be at least twice as hard for me to coincide with them, I would need to change them even more, and they will be impossible to change by then. Only a personal hypothesis, but with a high probability of being correct. I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't get a relationship by 20 will fail to have a love life, but with my ideals, I have to get it soon.
My chances of experiencing love are getting thinner every year as I grow older. Hence, the rush.

[talaniman]

What are you willing to compromise on since all we have heard is what you want from her?

[Hyouka]

She didn't like that I shave, I have a beard now.
She didn't like that I play computer games, I've stopped.
She didn't like my clothes, I have new clothes now(they were bad, I didn't buy them before)
She didn't like that I don't workout, well, now I do.
She didn't like that I drink, I've stopped, not completely, just not once a week anymore.
She wanted me to eat more healthy. I do now.
She wanted me to learn to cook, I've found my hidden talent for cooking.
She didn't like my hairstyle(long hair). Now it's short(other people like it better as well, but I see no real difference - both suited me).
She wanted me to go out more, now I do.
She didn't like that I was prudent with money. Now I spend more.
She wants me to stop being so "philosophical" - thinking deeply. She can't follow me, actually, my psychology teacher found it challenging to follow my train of thought. But what they see as challenging, is trivial to me. I feel like a math teacher explaining 5 x 5 = 25 to 7 year old children... It's easy, but they see it as some mystery... So I joined this forum and am learning to let myself go and enjoy the little things.

I believe I'm compromising a lot. What she asked for, wasn't troubling for me, all these things I've changed/am changing, are either beneficial to me or weren't that important to me.

[Homegirl 50]

It was your choice to change and it's her choice if she doesn't. She needs to do her own growing and manipulating her is wrong.
There are many people who don't meet "the one " or fall in love until they are approaching 30. Stop trying to mold this girl to fit you and stop taking yourself so serious. You sound really desperate.

[talaniman]

No wonder she doesn't listen to you. She doesn't have too! She's the boss and you do as you are told!

[Hyouka]

You both just made me laugh. We're so deep, we're missing the point, and you barely know anything about our relationship. We got way off the track.
She changed a lot for me as well, more than me I'd say.

No wonder she doesn't listen to you. She doesn't have too! She's the boss and you do as you are told!

She told me not too long ago, that I probably like her, because she does what I tell her(she feels/felt the opposite of what you're saying). She changed way more than me, the things I've changed are minor. She has changed as a person , and grew up enough, that her friends are wondering what is happening.
We both mold each other into a couple, and change ourselves for the better, even if we separate, we know we will come out of this relationship better than ever before. WIN/WIN either way.

You sound really desperate

I sound, but I'm not, I accepted my probable fate of being alone 8-12 months ago, made plans, found my other passions. I mentioned this earlier, I will try to make my relationship work .

Manipulating her is wrong.

If manipulating her is wrong, why is it okay to let my girl get manipulated by other guys?
Just because she doesn't realize it, doesn't make it okay.

It must sound really funny to you that a 19 year old guy is planning his whole life, in detail, being stubborn.
I may sound weird, immature, but I know I am right :)


My main question was : Is this the end?
Now I know the answer, it's not, it's a new possibility for improvement.

Now I have another question which we are kind of discussing(indirectly).
Should I let our relationship slowly decay? Until she realizes what's going on (unreasonable) . Or can I do something about it(reasonable)? And how?
I'm not asking whether it's okay for me to change her. I'm against manipulating, also, she won't let me do that. Would break up with me immediately if I attempted to do so.
Clarification : We're not going to break up over this. And this matters less than I made it seem before(I've changed) Yet I still want her to grow up, and I'm confident that there will be more situations like this, with a different topic, until she grows.

Off topic :
I don't know why you guys are against changing so much.
For example, a young kid, may keep insulting everyone just because he's a kid , and hurt other peoples feelings, until he realizes , what effect his actions have and grows up, acts appropriately(all children are like this, until brain develops certain functions) hence, crying in cinemas, screaming at funerals etc...
But Teenagers also don't realize how their future life depends on their current lifestyle, until they face the consequences, which, sadly, are often irreversible and life changing(for the worse).
So why not change, before something bad happens, when you know for a fact, that it will turn out bad?
Do you think it's okay for a child to be a rascal, "because it's natural since he's not smart enough"?
Well, I disagree, I think children need discipline(not too much, they also need freedom - 50/50) and teenagers need to learn about themselves and their lives and change so they don't end up like most people do nowadays(maybe it was like this before as well).
Most children and teenagers live accordingly to your ideals(I assume since you think changing is bad and nature should take it's course) "carefree and without someone to teach them a lesson" . And what are the consequences of this?
53% divorce rate, alcoholism, egoists, selfish people, liars, every man for himself, arrogance, ignorance, idiots. And most importantly, people barely have any social skills besides talking and waving hands, low Emotional Intellect and are unhappiness is very very common.
I'd rather live in a world, where everyone is happy, friendly, unselfish, honest and honorable. And to achieve that, we need to change, and to change since we're 12-16, not 30-60.
No matter what the environment, ethnicity or race - if parents are good people, and kid is taught how to grow up happy and successful , he will become a good person. He may be black, muslim, jewish, ginger and goth - the kid would grow up a better and more successful than the average current person.
I'm really fed up with all the BS I see around the world.
Your way of thinking breeds idiots. My thinking isn't ideal as well. But, if teenagers/kids were properly taught, the world would be a very beautiful and enjoyable place to live.

You aren't 19. You probably don't know how messed up our current generation truly is. Don't forget who raised them, and what ideals they were taught to follow.
I'm not directing this argument towards you, but to humanity as a whole. I can't imagine how hard it is to raise a child. But people who think that children/teens are free to live as they see fit, shouldn't be allowed to raise children at all.
It's not just me, turn on TV or surf the net(almost everyone thinks that the world is doomed with this generation). Honey boo boo - popular. Kim Kardashian - millionaire. "16 and mom". These kind of people are ideals, are admired, just what the hell? I think, pedophiles will be heroes in 50 years at this rate.

I must say. Wow , humanity is definitely heading the right direction, we shouldn't change. /sarcasm.

[Homegirl 50]

You keep writing these mini novels. I don't think you want answers, you just like reading what you write. I'm done.

[talaniman]

You DA man with the plan! Let us know how it works out.

Good luck.

[Hyouka]

Homegirl50, I appreciate all of your efforts. In the end, you helped me out a lot.
I want answers, I just have a futuristic outlook on the world, following the "Emphatic civilization" ideals, the world isn't ready for that yet, not by a 100 years. I'm one of the extremely few who share these ideals. It's idealism is near utopia, yet very realistic. All it takes, is empathy and being a good person, willing to learn and change. If people were to change, we would live in paradise.
So it's no wonder,why you give up arguing, and why I need to write mini novels explaining myself.

Talaniman, no need to make fun of me. You may think I'm wrong. But I wrote a mini novel stating that I'm correct, I see no real objections and have 100 reasons and arguments that I'm right and will succeed. Thank you anyway, you did help me out a lot as well :)
I'll find you 10-20 years later, when I'm featured on the news all around the world :D

I believe you all would find this interesting, read at least the introduction

As the forces of globalization accelerate, deepen, and become ever more complex, the older faith-based and rational forms of consciousness are likely to become stressed, and even dangerous, as they attempt to navigate a world increasingly beyond their reach and control.

Times are changing, very rapidly, so must we. You have your own ideals, which worked in your time, but your time is the past, I realize you are some kind of experts. You are smart enough to realize that you need to adapt, and stop teaching others a failing way of living. At least consider this. I do not wish to win or flatter my ego. I wish to live in a happy world.
My generation is the first born generation in this changing world, the 21st century, we are the bridge, that connects humanity to the future, a bridge, between old world, and new era. And the way we are taught to live, gets us no further, while technology, is progressing 98% faster than ever before.

P.S. True that I wanted to have a debate, but this was just a one sided roast.
Me and girlfriend have resolved our issues!

[talaniman]

HOW? You bombard us with all these side issues, but balk about explaining the issue that brought you here?

[Hyouka]

I'm even quoting your words. I'm not the one leading us off track, I'm just following you there.
Ok, main topic again.
She is carefree, I'm serious. How do we live together, without changing?

[talaniman]

You said you have resolved your issues. I asked how.

[Hyouka]

Simply by talking. We shared our dreams, biggest secrets, talked about future, simply put, we connected. We're over this. I'm letting her grow.

She is carefree, I'm serious. How do we live together, without changing?

This issue is still at hand. I can prevent it from giving us problems.
But still, it kind of hurts. How can I accept her for who she is?
We accept each other, but after a while, differences keep piling up, we argue a lot, and learn to accept each other again. It's a never ending cycle, how to break it up, without breaking up?

P.S. I realize I'm kind of contradicting myself, the thing is, I'm the one suffering because of her being carefree, she sees no problems. Just that I bring them up. And from my point of view, she creates them all the time. Realizing her point of view, I can look past them, until they pile up and I see more cons than pros.

[Precious7]

Oh! I see so whatever you are now, " a gentlemen '' and all those good habits its because of HER. Wow, you should appreciate her for this. She may sound not mature by your description but I am sure she has some right perspective in the area in which you don't have. Appreciate each other and or give a break to each other ( I don't mean break up, just a break). :) hope good for you.

[Homegirl 50]

You let her be who she is and respect her for who she is. If you can't do that, you break up with her. Why should she not be herself just to be with you.

[talaniman]

By chance does she live with her parents, and of course have them to consider, and obey?