[paraclete]

I wish it were that simple Tom big government v small government, both sides produce volumenous legislation and regulations so the only way to avoid this is to abolish the form of government that promotes the idea that there needs to be government. Government by the people, for the people, does that have a familiar ring to it. What you have now is government by the government, for the government, whilst the people are an inconvenient adjunct who must be consulted about who sits in the seats of power now and again

[talaniman]

That sounds like your government Clete where the people are required to vote for a government. And you get some loonies too, by the people.

[paraclete]

People are not required to vote for a government Tal, unlike yourselves they vote for candidates who form a government, but we lack this contention where there is this third wing, so to speak, who thinks it is capable of acting on its own. So the truth is, you vote for a government and are governed by that government. It is an exact reflection of yourselves whereas we vote to provide a Parliament and such government as there is is at the whim of that Parliament. In our system the government cannot exist without the confidence of the House

Yes we get some fringe dwellers, we all do, fortunately they don't get to form government even if they influence outcomes. You see our leaders are called to account everyday in the Parliament whereas as yours are called to account by the media. We have many more independent and minor party members than you do

[tomder55]

no it's not a matter of eliminating the form of government . It's requiring the government to adhere to the constitution......not some distorted interpretation of it .

[paraclete]

Well you see for some strange reason we don't encounter that problem, only rarely is the constitution mentioned and when it is the issue is quickly resolved. You see our politicians try to stay within the limitations of constitutional power, unlike yourselves we don't have numerous additions to the constitution, the document has proven to be extraordinarily difficult to alter

[talaniman]

You haven't encountered the problem because you have yet to grow enough people of differing opinions/cultures and my friend Tom's opinions and interpretation are very different to many here and that's the challenge moving forward. Generations and progress have changed things enough to take a deeper at look at policy and situations and we differ as to the adjustments that need to be made.

A government, state or federal has to be big enough to provide the basics to it citizens or the citizens will take their own devices to get what they need/want. Tom thinks the thinking of the founders is perfect and needs no further examination, no changes, and of course I disagree.

[smoothy]

There is falsehood that goes around that says nobody outside the two main parties is allowed to run in the USA.

That couldn't be further from the truth. Anyone that can get sufficient petitions in each state can get themselves of the ballots of each state.

Now keep in mind, getting on the ballot doesn't mean you will get enough votes to win. The problem is most democrats would vote for Stalin if he suddenly arrose from the dead, because their party told them to do so. Few of them are capable of independent thought...

Every so often another party arises and displaces one of the other parties that then falls out of favor, and its been quite a while since that last happened.

[talaniman]

You have had enough trouble dealing with our living candidates on the democratic side let alone speculating about dead ones. Worry about the republican candidates before you jump on ours. Ours have been winning.

[smoothy]

Sounds like I'm correct... the Democrats are upset they never got a chance to vote for Stain and Lennin who apparently are the mentors of today's Democrat party.. and would without hesitation if they ever got the chance.

If John F Kennedy was alive today..he wouldn't be a Democrat. THe democrats woudl be attacking him for not being a good socialist.

[talaniman]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Passing the loony juice rather early today huh?

[tomder55]

Tom thinks the thinking of the founders is perfect and needs no further examination, no changes, and of course I disagree.

wrong again. When change is needed ,the founders provided an appropriate instrument in the constitution for it . The probem is your side thinks that judicial ,executive ,or bureaucratic fiat is the proper way .

[talaniman]

So the legal process isn't good enough? Then who is the arbiter and what's the process and who decides constitutionality? Last I looked you can challenge and appeal. Not good enough for you?

[smoothy]

Tal, it wasn't US that voted Obama, the man with no experience at anything into office not just once but twice. After the world knew what a worthless lump of human flesh he was.

He didn't just fool the left once... but he fooled them twice, and what's that old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me "? The left got fooled twice.

[tomder55]

By the way does anyone know why our signatures have disappeared?

don't know and don't like it .

I have changed mine to read :

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all 'right-thinking 'people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as “bad luck.” (Robert A. Heinlein)

[smoothy]

By the way does anyone know why our signatures have disappeared?

That change was put into effect by one of the site admins as part of an upcoming change. There was a thread announcing it before it happened, I don't feel like looking for it right now, besides I've got some other stuff I need to attend to right now.. Tal would know where it is. The signatures were moved to what is called a bio or something to that effect.

[tomder55]

That change was put int

o effect by one of the site admins as part of an upcoming change. There was a thread announcing it before it happened, I don't feel like looking for it right now, besides I've got some other stuff I need to attend to right now.. Tal would know where it is. The signatures were moved to what is called a bio or something to that effect.

lame

[tomder55]

So the legal process isn't good enough? Then who is the arbiter and what's the process and who decides constitutionality? Last I looked you can challenge and appeal. Not good enough for you?

yeah I guess in a post-constitutional America that's probably the best we can expect. Several courts have ruled against various subsidies and mandates that the emperor decided were needed .But it's still full steam ahead for the emperor's implementation .He hasn't even gone to Congress to ask for remedies to bring his decisions into compliance.

The final arbiter is the people ;not the courts. The oligarchs in the courts seized the power of judicial review ;and no one ever challenged the premise .

[talaniman]

We can wait to see what the next election brings. May as well.

[paraclete]

Yes be hopeful an election will bring change, for Tom and smoothy release from the dreaded democrats, for Tal release from the deadly grip of the republicans in the house

[tomder55]

elections don't bring change. the leviathan ever grows larger because with the exception of a few conservatives ,the Repubic party also believes in a large government to manage .