[tickle]

Actually Dutch is not that hard to learn, but German sucks. I don't agree with the Dutch attitude put forth by the OP,my son's fiancé is Dutch and actually very easy to get along with.

Permanent residents of any EU country are required to know the language fluently before being accepted by their government as permanent residents.

And I do agree with Odinn. That is why I said, time to kick this guy to the curb or get a spine and set this woman straight. I for one would not put up with that for any time at all !

[smoothy]

Smoothy is dead on the money. How can you be engage when you cannot understand what others are saying and zone out? Forget a trip, take a class so you can properly cuss this woman out in her own language.

That's some of the first things my Italian Neighbors taught me how to do... cuss people out... I could swear up a storm in Italian by my fourth month in the country, well before I was speaking conversational level from memory. That was in early 1988, I remain friends with all of them all these years later.

Learn it well enough...and you don't have to conciously translate in your head.....which is exhausting to do. My 6th year there I only heard english once a month when I called the USA,.....or heard songs on the radio, I wasn't working with other Americans that year. You actually begin to think in both languages....meaning you don't think of what to say in that language...you just do it.....and vice versa when you listen to it.

[helenebaskit]

I speak Dutch, French and English. Tourist Italian and German. I understand most Dutch people (depending on the accents). It's far easier to understand an Amsterdam accent, than someone from the countryside. My Dutch is purely functional and to express something that is emotional doesn't come across well. Believe me, I've done it and got stared at with blank stares. The Dutch get far more scared if you respond in English, we have the upper hand then. Native English speakers pretty much stick to their own language here, since most educated Dutch people are fluent in English (which she isn't).

I have a few choice Dutch words for her, but honestly, I really can't stand to even look at her.

[helenebaskit]

Actually Dutch is not that hard to learn, but German sucks. I don't agree with the Dutch attitude put forth by the OP,my son's fiancé is Dutch and actually very easy to get along with.

Permanent residents of any EU country are required to know the language fluently before being accepted by their government as permanent residents.

And I do agree with Odinn. That is why I said, time to kick this guy to the curb or get a spine and set this woman straight. I for one would not put up with that for any time at all !

And you're fluent in Dutch, are you? I'd love to hear your pronunciation. It's one thing to read and write Dutch, it's a whole other planet speaking it. The Dutch always make fun of foreigners who speak Dutch, they're simply not accustomed to it, even the expats who've lived here for 25 years.

I'm sure your daughter-in-law is a sweetheart.

[simpleman75]

I did not read all the replies, and I am not sure what the Dutch take on marriage is, but in a normal marriage you are suppose to join in life with your significant other. Meaning that 1) He should respect your wishes, as long as they are not immoral or illegal, 2) Put you above all others. You have to make the decision on what battles to pick, if you do not draw a line and stick to your guns nothing will change.

[DoulaLC]

I'm going to put something out here that will likely be unpopular but anyway....

I have NEVER seen anyone act like your husband does towards someone else except in cases where they were more involved than "friends". He takes her side, listens to everything she says, won't tell her to back down, goes out with her without bringing you along or even inviting you, and why does she even need a house key? What is that for? Yeah...I think there is more going on here than you believe. Sure, you say he's madly in love with you but really, if you're madly in love with someone, you don't treat them this way or allow them to be treated this way by "friends". He may love you but I would bet everything I own that he loves her as well...and more than just as a "sister".

I wondered something similar. Even if they are not more than friends now, did they happen to be more involved than just as friends in the past? As you found out from other Dutch friends, this isn't a cultural thing, it is just the way she is, and he is okay and supportive of that... even when it causes you so much upset. That's a problem. You're not asking him to stop being a friend to her, only to have some boundaries that you both can be comfortable with. Again... compromise comes into play and it doesn't sound as though he is too interested.

Maybe your standing up to her (and you don't have to be nasty about it.....just straight forward and to the point) will show both of them just how serious you are. As was said, his response, especially since he was the one to suggest that you defend yourself, will tell you a great deal.

[Jake2008]

I agree with Odin, and in our North American culture, a relationship such as your husband has, would be seen, or thought of as an affair.

My three best friends growing up were guys. We all suffered through the teen years together, and went our separate ways to colleges. We didn't have Facebook, or computers to keep in touch, but the friendships stayed intact, through thick and thin, for many, many years.

Eventually we all were married, and although we remained friends to this day, all of us respected the boundary between friendship, and marriage and never expected to be put first. That place was reserved for spouses, and spouses only. It was just a natural progression of our friendships over the years. The friendship remained, but the boundaries changed.

But, what you describe is not normal behavior for a married man, and a woman who has a significant other. I doubt that even a friendship could exist between the two of them, such as I had, because she doesn't seem capable of even considering that concession. It won't come natural to her, and it not only shows disrespect toward you, but to your husband as well.

Of course your husband should have had boundaries long before now, even before you moved so far from your own home, to be with him. Perhaps, like her, he too is not capable of changing the relationship with his friend, and put his marriage, and you, ahead of all else.

I think they both know what they should do, they simply choose not to, or are not capable of changing.

[smoothy]

While I don't know the Dutch Culture very well, ...(I do know someone that lives nearby with a Dutch female friend he's known far longer than his wife that comes and stays with them every year for a while) I am intimately familiar with Italian Culture (to the tune of 27 years)... and its not viewed with the same level of paranoia as it is here. At least in Northern and central Italy... in the deep south and Sicily they have a different way of viewing life (some would call it VERY backwards).

I think the Dutch Culture is far more liberal than Italian Culture is. And they DO view a lot of things a bit differently than We Americans do. So my perspective is different on this.

I see it more of this Dutch woman tends to have an abrasive personality that most don't like than actual hanky panky happening...or being on the verge of happening.

[helenebaskit]

Thank you for all of your input.

They've never been romantically involved, just friends. He says he doesn't find her attractive in the least, but fun to talk to. I do know two of his former girlfriends (from 20 years ago) and we're all on friendly terms. (The former girlfriends are both happily married, btw). I think Smoothly is right, the woman is extremely abrasive. You're all spot on with how boundaries need to be established. He trusts her and her "life partner" implicitly because he's known them for 30-some years. I think her behaviour is intrusive, and her partner seems to know that about her as well. (he keeps an apartment where he stays one evening a week to work on his music (or whatever) - or just to get the hell away from HER, is my guess.

I had a discussion about the Dutch culture with my Irish friend yesterday. She has been living in Amsterdam for 20 years. She said that coming from an English speaking culture the Dutch can be viewed as very intrusive and opinionated, and we almost need to become aggressive in defending ourselves, above and beyond what we do in our own culture. She said she's had to do it even though she didn't feel good in her own skin afterwards, but it's a part of living here. Frankly, I don't like living in defense mode. It's like they expect a confrontation to happen. Perhaps choosing to say nothing in these "confrontations" is really saying a lot. Or even a "sorry, I don't agree." And end it there.