[confused_guy]

Sorry guys, didn't see that post. She called and I was on the phone with her. Haha, ironic. <-- I'm not laughing at the situation, really... just the irony.


Anyhow, my problem with ignoring her calls is that I really don't do it to ANYONE. I feel like it's rude. I can only think of how it would make me feel for her (or anyone) to do the same. Even when she requested a break she made it a point to say that she won't ignore me or anything.

Plus, she knows me. She knows I pretty much always have my cell on me.

I see your point though about being too available. I'm trying to be slightly more unavailable in another way (at least when we're not in person)... she even brought it up last night. She directly asked me (kind of worriedly) if *I* still wanted to be with *her* because I have been so indifferent on the phone. I even kind of dragged out my answer and used that time to let her know that she has been making me feel kind of like a yo-yo and I have come to realize that I don't NEED her just like she doesn't NEED me. But I was willing to work on us if she was.

[Ash123]

Dude.







(you've got all the answers here should you wish to use them. Try to enjoy the madness that is a 20 year old lost girl or re-read the posts.)

Cheers

[confused_guy]

Thanks, Ash. I'm still not really that comfortable with ignoring a lot of her calls and stuff, but I think I might start shutting my phone off during the day at school. Give her a little more time to miss me so I'm not always at her beckon call.

[Ash123]

You just don't believe in yourself enough yet.

Do you have any good role models? Father? Grandfather?
If so, consult them. Have fun. Do not stress man. Fight any guilt.
She is taking her dysfunction and wrapping you in it like a cheap suit.

I hope you are studying something that will help you get a good career.
It's about her fitting into your schedule, not the other way around.
But I know that's hard to see right now.

Give yourself permission mentally to picture NEVER calling her.
Just as an exercise. It might bring you a moment of peace despite the fear of losing her.
Just a thought. You are out of control and high as a kite on hormones, but in your quiet hours take stock of your life. Do you have any dreams?
The hard way is usually the best way.

[confused_guy]

I've talked to my dad. He said if it was him he would take some of her calls but not all of them. If she sticks to just calling each night or whatever he says he would take them, but sometimes in the afternoon if he was doing something else (even something he could stop doing for a moment) he might consider not taking answering or calling back for a while.

He said he doesn't like playing games, but at the same time if you are at a girl's beckon call every second of every day she always knows you'll be there. She's in a power position and knows she can "have" you whenever she wants. So she's not likely to think or wonder about you as much.

If you invite her to do anything she'll only feel obliged to do it if she really really wants to, where if you aren't always there to take her calls she might start trying to find more ways to see you in person. He said he wouldn't ignore her completely because that's just not a nice way to be in his opinion, and if you want things to work out with her you have to both make an effort.

As far as wrapping me in her dysfunction, that's probably a good way to put it. I don't think she's doing it to be viscious or anything though. She's in a tough place with her parents and is torn between wanting to be with me and not wanting to make her relations with them any worse (or, God forbid, to getting kicked out of the house again).

As far as fitting her into my schedule, it's not terribly hard. I do my work, I go to the gym, and I still have a fair bit of free time. I have room to shift things around. She works AND goes to school AND has to try to repair her family relations... so for the time being I have to be somewhat flexible when it comes to spending time together.

If the hard way is the best way then we must be made for each other. :-) It's tough right now, but I can't help but think that if we get over the major hurdle of her family then we can be very happy together.


In response to Nohitter, I don't really understand why you think she is playing me. She's young and she's mixed up about her feelings vs. what she "has to do" in order to survive and get through school. She's not a mean person. Maybe you guys are misunderstanding our relationship based on my descriptions...



My biggest concern right now, to be honest, is that she may try to transition into the "just friends" category if her family situation doesn't improve stat. "It's not fair to either of us, blah blah blah." You know the routine. When she got off the phone with me last night at 7:30 or so she said she'd call me back before bed but never ended up doing it. I'm betting she just fell asleep on the couch watching TV, but either way she didn't follow through. So I'm not answering her next call unless it comes late tonight.

Keeping busy today and keeping my phone in the other room. Gives me some room to not take her call and explain that I wasn't in the room at the time... may start doing that more often, honestly.

[Ash123]

This girl is not in ANY position to be a serious girlfriend. NO WAY.
You spend far too much time waiting for her.
She never does what she says. She's a mess.
I know you want her more than an Everest Expedition wants fresh oxygen, but she's going to make you crazy.
Heck, she already has made you crazy.

IF if you can handle that - then just say to yourself this is like going to an amusement park. Enjoy the ride. But if you want to take it seriously - and worry about when and why you answer the phone, you are, as I think I said before, hosed.

Note: if you want to save your sanity, call her up and break up with her. That will guarantee her interest in you.
It'll buy you time to think if this girl is for you. Hard to believe but it probably the only way to keep her interest in you.

[confused_guy]

Dude, she is interested in me enough to take a chance and have me over to her house when she was specifically told not to. When she could have gotten caught at any time by her other family members. It's not like I'm just chasing some elusive girl who doesn't give a crap if I live or die.

I do think it's like an amusement park though. Bigs ups and downs lately. I worry about when and why I answer the phone because I care about her and would like to continue being a part of her life. I want to play my cards right and ensure that we have the best chance possible.

[Nohitter410]

I agree with allheart as hard as it will be too since you are infatuated with her and allowing her to consume your life, you need to find it in you to break up with her. But don't do it with any bs. Just be like you asked for space and I was trying to give it to you but it doesn't seem to be true space. You need to figure out what you want and being in a relationship doesn't allow either of us the freedom to do that.

Or something like that but anyway just break up with her, She will be upset at first but it will at least peak her interest. Just wait for her to break up with you and be running after her for a long long time.

You responded to my point by saying she is not playing me "just young and mixed up" basically saying she doesn't know what she wants and why should she. She is 20 years old. Age isn't the biggest factor or problem you guys have but if she is mixed up why would you want a relationship with her right now. Let her figure out what she wants and your relationship would have the potential to be there and be strong. Otherwise it will cause you and her a world of hurt and no way it will ever work. NO WAY!! Move on right now and man up because it is your only chance to be with this girl in the long run. The odds are still stacked against you and moving on shouldn't be to get back together but what you are doing is making it a zero chance of reconciliation. Trust me on that.

[confused_guy]

I agree with allheart as hard as it will be too since you are infatuated with her and allowing her to consume your life, you need to find it in you to break up with her. But don't do it with any bs. Just be like you asked for space and I was trying to give it to you but it doesn't seem to be true space. You need to figure out what you want and being in a relationship doesn't allow either of us the freedom to do that.

We've already had that discussion, and she said that she *thought* she wanted a lot more space but came to realize that it's not what she really wants. She wants to have SOME space but still be with me. I think the "I'm not taking a break from you, bonehead!" line kind of summed it up, but further conversations have made that even clearer. She said she never seriously considered breaking up with me but felt too much pressure over everything.

Or something like that but anyway just break up with her, She will be upset at first but it will at least peak her interest. Just wait for her to break up with you and be running after her for a long long time.

What about patience? Isn't that an option? She's got to deal with her folks, and if I'm still there when the smoke clears that's got to put me in a good light. She's already suffered losses recently and certainly doesn't need me to break up with her when I sincerely don't want to.

And honestly, if she split up with me I would go back to the not initiating contact thing and I really think it would be a matter of days before she tried to mend things. Her eyes don't lie, and no matter how much space she asks for she doesn't want me out of her life.

You responded to my point by saying she is not playing me "just young and mixed up" basically saying she doesn't know what she wants and why should she. She is 20 years old. Age isn't the biggest factor or problem you guys have but if she is mixed up why would you want a relationship with her right now.

Because I care about her and a full on breakup seems like a helluva lot more space than she ever asked for. She acted very worried that I didn't care about her anymore on Saturday night when she called me as I was on my way to her place. Said that I just seemed really indifferent. When the going gets rough her family turns their back on her. We had a conversation a week or so back before the "break" where I told her that I will never turn my back on her as long as she doesn't do it to me. I gave her my word, and girlfriend or not, my word is important to me.

Let her figure out what she wants and your relationship would have the potential to be there and be strong. Otherwise it will cause you and her a world of hurt and no way it will ever work. NO WAY!!

No way it will work in the current situation you mean? Why do you get that feeling? She's trying to straighten things out, and our communication did get a little better over the past 4 or 5 days (even if it still isn't the greatest). Her parents are still on vacation, and the timing would certainly not be ideal even if I did consider breaking up.

After the initial request for "a break" we haven't had a single spat. Things have been a little awkward at times, yes. And I have definitely spent too much of my free time worrying about things (social anxiety is terrible). But I also went from thinking I may never see her again to spending the night with her, having sex, having her tell me she loves me, having her confirm that she doesn't want to break up with me and wants things to work... and now is a good time to just end it?

Move on right now and man up because it is your only chance to be with this girl in the long run. The odds are still stacked against you and moving on shouldn't be to get back together but what you are doing is making it a zero chance of reconciliation. Trust me on that.

What I am doing? Taking her calls? Or worrying? I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to. Sorry if I'm coming off as a jerk or argumentative, but I'm getting opinions across the board from my real life friends/family and on here. For me, this is a dire situation and I don't want to screw things up based on the opinions of disconnected people or faulty advice.

[Ash123]

Ohhhh Confused Guy.
We've ALL been there.
You stepped on a love grenade and are on your back calling a medic.
The first-aid has arrived (posts galore). You may need to be sedated to get it though.
You may think a trick or a phone formula will calm your nerves but they won't buddy.


My guess is that you are spiraling out of control and there's nothing you can hear or do
But follow this to a place where it kills you. There's nothing like the chase!
Have fun... ever been to a greyhound track? They never get the rabbit.
You may get it now and then.

But the real girl you haven't even met yet that'll
Knock your socks off and not have a life out of "lifetime" TV is waiting.
You just don't know it it. Until you break up with this "phone girl" - at least for a while, you're going to be a mess -
Just like her.

Hang in there CG. I PROMISE you will look back one day and laugh.
Today, you just want to pull your hair out. The reason you
Are feeling that you are getting not enough help is you need to learn:

a) you don't FIGHT to get a girl back unless you did something wrong.
(if you want more attention. Give less attention.)
b) she is not GF material. Maybe one day. Not now.
c) you (I can tell) don't want a "fun" girl, you want a committed GF and she ain't that
d) if you want this thrill ride of sneaking in, and trying to be boyfriend #1
And survive all this drama, do it. And don't worry about when and how you answer phone. EVER. EVER. EVER.EVER. EVER. EVER.
e) all these games are going to wear you out. You care more than her right now.

What is your possible career? That may give you focus too.
Friends are big at times like this too... focus on them.

[confused_guy]

ohhhh Confused Guy.
We've ALL been there.
You stepped on a love grenade and are on your back calling a medic.
The first-aid has arrived (posts galore). You may need to be sedated to get it though.
You may think a trick or a phone formula will calm your nerves but they won't buddy.


My guess is that you are spiraling out of control and there's nothing you can hear or do
But follow this to a place where it kills you. There's nothing like the chase!
Have fun... ever been to a greyhound track? They never get the rabbit.
You may get it now and then.

I think part of it is that I've had it in my hands for two months straight, day in day out. Now it's suddenly elusive again.

But the real girl you haven't even met yet that'll
Knock your socks off and not have a life out of "lifetime" TV is waiting.
You just don't know it it. Until you break up with her you're going to be a mess -
Just like her.

I am not ready to break up with her. And like I said, I'm pretty confident if she takes the step to officially split from me she will be ringing me off the hook within a few days. THAT is when I will really initiate the no contact rule... for a little while. I don't WANT her out of my life, so I'm only going to be firm about it for so long.

But splitting now, especially when our terms have improved, seems like a bad idea that will only serve to make us both more miserable.

Hang in there CG. I PROMISE you will look back one day and laugh.

Hope so. I just tried to call the doctor to see about getting medication for anxiety and/or an appointment with a psychiatrist. President's Day though, so no help there. Today feels like a bad, bad day even though nothing has really happened to make me feel that way.

today, you just want to pull your hair out. The reason you
Are feeling that you are getting not enough help is you need to learn:

a) you don't FIGHT to get a girl back unless you did something wrong.
b) she is not GF material. Maybe one day. Not now.
c) you (I can tell) don't want a "fun" girl, you want a committed GF and she ain't that
d) if you want this thrill ride of sneaking in, and trying to be boyfriend #1
And survive all this drama, do it. And don't worry about when and how you answer phone. EVER. EVER. EVER.EVER. EVER. EVER.

What is your possible career? That may give you focus too.
Friends are big at times like this too... focus on them.

You're right, I don't just want a "fun" girl anymore. I've been messing around with them for the past two years. I've found somebody worth holding onto now, so that's where the fight part comes in.

The advice in part d. seems reasonable. I'm a wreck, but I have been through worse. You don't think it's worth worrying about how and when to answer the phone? I'm nitpicking these little details because in addition to me feeling like crap today I want to do everything in my power to increase my odds of keeping us together. I've spent two years as a bitter person, and I haven't allowed myself to get close to anyone.

She IS different, and she hasn't just wormed her way into my heart like so many other girls have tried. It happened naturally, and she pointed out things about me that I didn't think anyone else could see. If I'm not truly in love with her I am most definitely infatuated (as someone else said). My anxiety is through the roof today.


Like I said, I don't see her just cutting me out of her life. I don't think she has it in her to break up with me right now because she is too afraid to lose me (and she will... I'm not going to settle for "friends"). But as each day goes by and her family gets closer and closer to coming home I feel that crunch time is approaching. She's going to want to see me, but she's not going to want to lie to them (or get caught) either.

I guess if I stay the course... take most of her calls. Don't initiate too much contact. Be the "fun guy" that wildcat suggested. She won't have any reason to initiate a breakup. And if I don't pressure her things will come to a natural conclusion one way or another and I will finally either get what I want or have closure.

I hope that she eventually has it in her to let her parents know that we are still in contact and she would like me to meet them. I've always had good luck dealing with families, and I think once they meet me their minds will be put at ease pertaining to my intentions with their daughter.


I'm going to school for physical therapy. She is working on getting into the same program. Back to the grind tomorrow.

As far as friends go, lately the majority of our conversations are dedicated to my current situation. Many of them know her and reassure me that she obviously cares about me (they say you can tell by her tone of voice towards me, the way she looks at me, etc.) but is probably feeling torn about how to deal with things because she's trying to get back into her family's good graces while still maintaining a relationship with me. As I stated before, her last boyfriend was terrible and things resulted in a two-year restraining order, so despite her age they are treating her very much like a child. They want what's best for her (education, work, etc.) No guys. And my six year + age difference doesn't look good to them for sure.

[LBP]

"Like I said, I don't see her just cutting me out of her life."

You really don't have much experience with women, do you?

"I hope that she eventually has it in her to let her parents know that we are still in contact and she would like me to meet them."

Still haven't met these parents yet you've been in her house while she's there? Look, man... If she's willing to lie to her parents about you, she's willing to lie to you about things also.

Just go with what you said, my friend... Stay the course and hope for the best.

[Ash123]

I SWORE there was nothing else I could add to this, but you seem to be really hurting.

It is VERY easy to give advice, and harder to take it.
I understand.

You put all your money on a broken horse. WE'VE ALL DONE IT. You cannot make this girl into what you want - ever. I know the sex and the perfume and the skin are all A-ok, but what comes inside that trojan horse is an army of dysfunction waiting to make you crazy.
Note: it's not her problem. It's yours. You can't change her.

I'll give you one last scenario. You will not be able to process it because you higher than the Jupiter 1 - on testosterone and adrenaline but when you come down, consider this.

IMAGINE if this girl had been: trustworthy, sexy, reliable, smart, mature, honest and your best friend. And you blew it because you took her for granted or cheated on her. You wanted her back, but there was no chance because she was a woman of principles.
THAT WOULD SUCK!!

This just hurts your groin and gives you anxiety. But your life has not been F'd up.
YOU ARE VERY LUCKY. VERY. When the right girl comes along, hopefully a situation
Like this will show you how to be: strong, self confident and not insane over a woman, unless you are an equal. So, when a hot/cool chick comes along you're ready. This girl is practice. That's it. IMPOSSIBLE to see right now.

And you are probably in too deep to go back. So you will have to see this in person and in 3d! Try to breathe. Turn the phone off. Take back some control. Enjoy time when you want it - not when she does - and YES, calling a therapist is an excellent idea. Call your general physician and just say you have a "family counseling query - do they have any recommendations?" they won't think twice about it. Your mind has made this girl into something she ain't. But that's OK... it's life.

Be the Fun Guy - even if it ain't you. But as we all know, it's tiring not to be ourselves.

[confused_guy]

"Like I said, I don't see her just cutting me out of her life."

You really don't have much experience with women, do you?

I do, actually. It's usually me doing the cutting off though.

"I hope that she eventually has it in her to let her parents know that we are still in contact and she would like me to meet them."

Still haven't met these parents yet you've been in her house while she's there? Look, man... If she's willing to lie to her parents about you, she's willing to lie to you about things also.

Just go with what you said, my friend... Stay the course and hope for the best.

She's a bad liar and almost always gets caught. That's one of the problems for her right now... the struggle between doing what she wants and what her parents want for her. It's not easy for a lot of people to understand (myself included), but if you knew her background the way that I do you wouldn't be as quick to judge. Not allowed to ride bikes 'til she was 10, Catholic upbringing, the works. Not everyone is able to have a nearly 100% open relationship with their folks like I do.

[confused_guy]

I SWORE there was nothing else I could add to this, but you seem to be really hurting.

You've got that right. :(

It is VERY easy to give advice, and harder to take it.
i understand.

you put all your money on a broken horse. WE'VE ALL DONE IT. You cannot make this girl into what you want - ever. I know the sex and the perfume and the skin are all A-ok, but what comes inside that trojan horse is an army of dysfunction waiting to make you crazy.
note: it's not her problem. It's yours. You can't change her.

That's something I've come to try to accept (a breakthrough for me, honestly). So now I feel like it is more my job to try to be patient and revert back to being the guy that she initially fell for rather than cutting her out of my life completely like many of you suggest. Joke with her, flirt, invite her to do stuff and if she declines blow it off and act like I don't care. Doing that for a couple of days got her to the point where she took the chance to have me over and risk possibly being kicked out again.

I'll give you one last scenario. You will not be able to process it because you higher than the Jupiter 1 - on testosterone and adrenaline but when you come down, consider this.

IMAGINE if this girl had been: trustworthy, sexy, reliable, smart, mature, honest and your best friend. And you blew it because you took her for granted or cheated on her. You wanted her back, but there was no chance because she was a woman of principles.
THAT WOULD SUCK!!

Sure would. I wouldn't do it though, I don't even drink hardly at all when I'm in a relationship. So that takes away pretty much any of the x factor.

This just hurts your groin and gives you anxiety. But your life has not been F'd up.
YOU ARE VERY LUCKY. VERY.

How so?

When the right girl comes along, hopefully a situation like this will show you how to be: strong, self confident and not insane over a woman, unless you are an equal. So, when a hot/cool chick comes along you're ready. This girl is practice. That's it. IMPOSSIBLE to see right now.

I feel like she already may have come along. I have been waiting for someone with the qualities she has for two years now. Dated and hooked up a lot. Only one girl came close, and she was just too soon after my last relationship.

And you are probably in too deep to go back.

I think you're right. Maybe medication/talking to somebody about my anxiety would help. I probably shouldn't even tell my girlfriend that I'm looking at taking this step.

so you will have to see this in person and in 3d! Try to breathe. Turn the phone off.

It'll be off for probably at least an hour or so later because I've got an appointment, then I may leave it in the car while at the gym.

take back some control. Enjoy time when you want it - not when she does

Pretty much everyone said to not take her next call until at least later tonight before bed.

- and YES, calling a therapist is an excellent idea. Call your general physician and just say you have a "family counseling query - do they have any recommendations?" they won't think twice about it. Your mind has made this girl into something she ain't. But that's OK... it's life.

I see her flaws, but most of them will change with time. She has made it a point to tell me that people don't change overnight, so patience and time will have to be on my side if I want to make it work. The anxiety of not knowing what steps she will take next is what is killing me. I feel like her and I are pretty much on the same knowledge level now though, which is nice. I can see how she's struggling though and just wish she had more strength to put her foot down with her parents.

My role right now HAS TO be to be the fun guy that you all keep mentioning. Back to basics. Flirting, joking, not taking things too seriously (at least in front of her). It's eating me alive though inside. Every spare moment I have today is dedicated to worrying about her next move. Not good.

be the Fun Guy - even if it ain't you. But as we all know, it's tiring not to be ourselves.

You said it, bud. Thanks for trying to help.

[Ash123]

Re: "This just hurts your groin and gives you anxiety. But your life has not been F'd up.
YOU ARE VERY LUCKY. VERY...."

You said: "How so?"

How so - is that this girl is not "trustworthy, reliable, smart, mature, honest and your best friend." she is a young, promiscuous girl who lives at home and has you going nuts because you spend more time scheming to get her than you do breathing. Why? You know she is promiscuous, unreliable, immature and you don't want to get hurt. And she is doing nothing but hanging out - and calling you when "bored"... (IS THAT NOT THE TRUTH?)

IF she had been THE ONE, and she's not, then you would be F'd... so, you're lucky. But you cannot see that. No way. Not at all...

You think about phones and strategies and plans and all the things that 10 years from now you'll realize are meaningless. It's just too hard for you to step up and be confident right now - be the "man" right now... but that's what growing up is all about. And love can make us crazy. I went through something similar not too long ago.
(She came back but I have kept my distance.)

If you can process anything amid your Stage 4 Love Fog - get this:
When we relenquish control we gain control. You'll see one day... really.