[RickJ]

The demonizing of all things referring to socialism is one of the success stories of the conservative plan to seed Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt is the lesser educated populace.

Ok, so that is what you say about the "demonizing" of socialism.

Ok.

So can you say anything good about socialism?

[NeedKarma]

So can you say anything good about socialism?

Like ex said, you're using it now!

[RickJ]

No.
That does not answer the question, NK. What is good about socialism? When has it ever worked?

[speechlesstx]

We've been over this stuff before, but it's time again... I'm NOT a redistributor either. Or I am because I believe in providing a safety net. The safety net IS redistribution.

As I've said before, I think we do need a safety net. I have no problem with a safety net because if nothing else, the left is typically more generous with someone else's money. What I have a problem with is widening that safety net to include people that should be making their own way. They can get off the lazy a$$es and work for what they have just like I did so those who are truly in need don't have to compete for those resources and the rest of us aren't sucked dry.

[NeedKarma]

Rickj,
You are very black and white. You can't seem to understand a mix of both. Both our countries use a mix, some services are socialized, some are left to the free market. In my opinion both pure unchecked capitalism and pure socialism are not the answer. In fact there is not a country on earth that use just one of those economic theories solely.

[speechlesstx]

Like ex said, you're using it now!

A fire department is not socialism. It is not a means of production to be co-opted for redistribution.

[NeedKarma]

It is not a means of production to be co-opted for redistribution.

If that's your definition then there is very little socialism in the world.

[excon]

A fire department is not socialism. It is not a means of production to be co-opted for redistribution.

Hello again, Steve:

So, social security isn't socialism? Medicare isn't either? Dude.

excon

[RickJ]

Rickj,
You are very black and white. You can't seem to understand a mix of both. Both our countries use a mix, some services are socialized, some are left to the free market. In my opinion both pure unchecked capitalism and pure socialism are not the answer. In fact there is not a country on earth that use just one of those economic theories solely.

I DO understand a mix. We should all contribute to such things as
a) roads
b) a police force
c) a fire department
d) programs for those truly in need
e) etc.

But herein lies the difficulty with discussing such things.

You, NK are in Canada so cannot truly know what goes on here. You don't see the excesses and abuses that go on here on a personal level.

I will agree with you 100% in that "unchecked capitalism" is just as bad as what I know of as "socialism".

Here in America there is a horrible mix of both. I am all for a "fair middle ground" over what is going on now:

Here we "reward" the money mongers like BP and Countrywide by giving them our taxpayer dollars to fix what they've screwed up... and we "reward" the welfare recipients with more money for each year that they stay on welfare without any expectation or requirement that they go out and work.

On and on and on...

Socialism is NOT the answer. If anyone cares to read and comment on the links that I gave back near the beginning of this thread, I'd love to hear them.

[tomder55]

When I pay for a fire dept I am paying for a service provided by a local government . They are essential services for the WHOLE community and are not funded through the redistribution of income taxes ,but are paid through property taxes. That means that everyone pays for the services ,either through being a property owner or by rent .

[NeedKarma]

I agree with you that socialism is not the answer, no 'ism is. The people are the problem, not the government nor the economic system. People will screw their neighbours over to get "stuff". It's a very materialistic society where the appearance of wealth is the ultimate dream goal.

And yes I do know a fair bit about what goes on there, you'd have to live here to know how much of your problems get reported - I look at the Current Events board and all everyone sees are the problems of the U.S. exposed there every day.

[excon]

When I pay for a fire dept I am paying for a service provided by a local government . They are essential services for the WHOLE community and are not funded through the redistribution of income taxes ,but are paid through property taxes. That means that everyone pays for the services ,either through being a property owner or by rent .

Hello again, tom:

You're splitting hairs. I don't know why the socialism word cannot escape your lips except as an epithet. Besides, you're wrong. The fire department serves ALL comers. They don't ask for your address if you're wrecked on the freeway. They don't ask for your address if you have a heart attack while visiting a city. Nope, it's socialism personified - and it ain't bad.

excon

[NeedKarma]

Hello again, tom:

You're splitting hairs. I dunno why the socialism word cannot escape your lips except as an epithet. Besides, you're wrong. The fire department serves ALL comers. They don't ask for your address if you're wrecked on the freeway. They don't ask for your address if you have a heart attack while visiting a city. Nope, it's socialism personified - and it ain't bad.

Good point.

[RickJ]

Can someone here give what they believe is the definition of Socialism?

And can someone here name a country on the planet where their definition of Socialism works?

[NeedKarma]

I don't think there are any pure socialist countries just as there aren't any pure capitalist countries.
Sweden generally ranks high in the rankings.

[tomder55]

The fire department serves ALL comers. They don't ask for your address if you're wrecked on the freeway. They don't ask for your address if you have a heart attack while visiting a city. Nope, it's socialism personified - and it ain't bad.

As opposed to socialism that targets specific populations for taxation and others for benefits.

[RickJ]

I don't think there are any pure socialist countries just as there aren't any pure capitalist countries.
Sweden generally ranks high in the rankings.

I agree. So where does that leave us as to this thread?

[excon]

Hello again, Rick:

You wingers are right. It's a redistribution of the wealth. It's taking from the producers and giving it to the NON producers. It truly is, everything you HATE about it.

It's a nice idea. But it doesn't work when a country adopts it as it's economic system. That's because nobody gets ahead, so nobody works. But, when people can still get ahead, they don't mind contributing a portion of their income for the betterment of society. That's socialism, and it pretty much does work at that level.

At some point, if the producers can't stay ahead, socialism stops working.. I believe we're a LONG way from that point. Now, I don't disagree with you that the MIDDLE CLASS can no longer afford it. But, that's because the RICH aren't paying THEIR share. They are getting RICHER, and RICHER, and even RICHER than that.

excon

[excon]

So where does that leave us as to this thread?

Hello again, Rick:

That Glenn Beck is an a$$! There's no disagreement there.

excon

[NeedKarma]

I agree. So where does that leave us as to this thread?

Nowhere at all. Obama isn't a socialist and isn't trying to impose socialism. The repeating of the erroneous buzzwords gets irritating at times.