[paraclete]

A US intelligence analysis says that Kim ordered the attack .
U.S. Implicates North Korean Leader in Attack - NYTimes.com

Does anythinkg happen in NK unless Kim the ill orders it, tell us something we don't know and we will call it intelligence otherwise

[tomder55]

That's not the point. The point is that it is an official finding(even though there is a bit of wiggle room).. that means decisions have to be made based on the finding .

From my perspective now would be a great time to get those unification talks into high gear before the next generation of Kim is allowed to take power. But I think the opportunity will probably be wasted .

[paraclete]

That's not the point. The point is that it is an official finding(even though there is a bit of wiggle room) ..that means decisions have to be made based on the finding .

From my perspective now would be a great time to get those unification talks into high gear before the next generation of Kim is allowed to take power. But I think the opportunity will probably be wasted .

Unification over Kim's dead and rotting body

[tomder55]

Politics is the art of the possible

[tomder55]

Evita seems to think that time is on our side .
Clinton Pledges Support in South Korea - NYTimes.com

She advised President Lee to have“strategic patience” .

But the provocations by Kim Jong mentally-ILL have been pretty much non-stop since Obama assumed office.
In that short time frame he has tested missiles ,conducted a nuclear test , kidnapped journalists ,and destroyed a South Korean ship of the fleet killing 46 sailors.

Since that incident he has responded to every reaction by South Korea by ramping up tensions . When South Korea suspended aid and trade he threatened to sever all ties. He has threatened more provocations if South Korea brings the incident up with the UNSC . This week more subs slipped away from port and were deployed in the Sea of Japan .
While Evita advises patience ;the NORKS continue to probe weakness and test limits.

In the past Kim would strategically act provocatively and soon after would cool it down. He was noticed and that was all he really wanted . US intel believes he's bluffing .
U.S. Intel Official: North Korea Is Bluffing - Newsweek

This time it's different I believe. He knows his time is up and unless he provides a smooth transfer of power to his 26 year old son ,there will likely be a coup. I do not think that gaging his actions in the past is a reliable indicator for predicting how far he will go this time.

[excon]

Hello tom:

So, what would you do that Obama and Evita isn't?

excon

PS> By the way, if the thrust of your post is to suggest that Kim is only doing what he's doing because Obama is weak, and that he didn't act this way when George Bush was president, because Bush was strong, I categorically reject the notion.

[tomder55]

No this is not about Bush .But since you bring it up I'll deal with the comparison later .

Either Kim is testing the US reaction or he thinks our reaction is irrelevant. I think Kim sees an open hand as a weak hand ,as does the Mahdi hatter ,as does Putin ,Chavez et al.

His open hand gestures in recent months included removing the NORKs from the list of states that support terrorism in October... and looking the other way as the NORKs smuggle weapons ,drugs ,counterfit currency .
They are now preparing to conduct another nuke test in direct violation of SC Resolution 1718 (a resolution passed by the prompting of the Bush adm. Since you bring his name up) .

It was evident to both of us that this was an act of war when it occurred 2 months ago. I do think our reaction then and now is tepid and cautious . Nothing is going to happen at UNSC this month because Lebanon currently sits at the chair.
As far as I can tell ,Evita came away with nothing this week in China.

Now as for the difference between Bush and Obama re the NORKs . Bush actively confronted them in the international arena. He correctly identified them as a proliferator of nuclear weapons . The NORKs were forced to the negotiating table in a bilateral format but were denied direct talks ;something Kim craved . The US intercepted NORK ships carrying illegal weapon systems to the ME and worked with international banks to freeze NORK assets. As I already mentioned Kim and the NORKs were officially sanctioned because of their nuclear activity even as permanent members of the SC were reluctant to do so.

But most importantly ;regionally there was no doubt or ambiguity that the US would support and defend our allies in the region. I am not sure they have the same confidence in the Obama Adm.

[meyowgee]

Considering the way this administration has treated Israel, also our ally, do you think OHB is going to take on the Chinese connection. Don't the Chinese hold the mortgage on the USA.

[excon]

But most importantly ;regionally there was no doubt or ambiguity that the US would support and defend our allies in the region. I am not sure they have the same confidence in the Obama Adm.

Hello again, tom:

Continually repeating right wing talking points does NOT make them true. If you actually LOOKED around the world, you'd see that Obama is NOT a wimp. He's not even close. But, you can't see past his bow's... I don't know why.

Look. The problem in Korea, is that Seoul, is just too damned close to NK. They KNOW, without a doubt, that even with conventional weapons, NK can lay waste to that city. So, no matter WHAT happens, and I say that again, NO MATTER WHAT happens, the South isn't going to defend itself.

Now, Obama is about to REVAMP South Korea's defenses, at great cost to ourselves, cause nobody considered that the NORKS had midget subs. But, I'd think we'd get more bang for our buck if we just moved Seoul farther south. That, or we got to leave.

excon

[tomder55]

My biggest concern to tell you the truth is that the NORKS have been the laboratory for Iran weapon development and strategy. The Iranians also have miniature subs and they also operate in shallow waters .They have seen that these subs are effective in sneak attacks . They will also go to school on the response by South Korea and the US .