[tomder55]

NK loses the impact because he doesn't add the vulgar adjective . I think it would have a much stronger impact if he would use the full Rhambo quote.

[tomder55]

Clete ,Cats is quite right ;it's the permanent government that is the tyranny.
The founders understood this and wrote the Constitution to guard against this .
James Madison wrote in Federalist Paper 51: "In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

He also wrote “The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny”.

This is why checks and balances were written into the Constitution . This is why the founders wrote into the Constitution the powers of the national government FEW and DEFINED .Anytime they excede these mandates they violate the Constitution. This is why a separate bill of rights for individuals was written as the 1st 10 amendments. Tyranny happens when checks and balances are eroded (do you hear me SCOTUS!! ) .

[paraclete]

Clete ,Cats is quite right ;it's the permanent government that is the tyranny.
The founders understood this and wrote the Constitution to guard against this .
James Madison wrote in Federalist Paper 51: "In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

He also wrote “The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny”.

This is why checks and balances were written into the Constitution . This is why the founders wrote into the Constitution the powers of the national government FEW and DEFINED .Anytime they excede these mandates they violate the Constitution. This is why a separate bill of rights for individuals was written as the 1st 10 amendments. Tyranny happens when checks and balances are eroded (do you hear me SCOTUS !!!) .

Tom I would love to give you an answer but frequently on this site my answers are erased before they are submitted so this thread is another that we won't continue the conversation on as I have better things to do

To the monitors up your nose with a rubber hose

[amyjc]

some say that the US has been ungovernable since 1776 .
What do you define as our "problems" ?
When a women asked Ben Franklin what they had given the nation after the Constitutional Convention ;Franklin replied " a Republic if you can keep it.

Might I suggest that the founders had no intention of creating a "democracy" as it is classically defined. I would also suggest that the further we drift from the founders vision the more "problems " we find.

Where did you read this from?

[amyjc]

some say that the US has been ungovernable since 1776 .
What do you define as our "problems" ?
When a women asked Ben Franklin what they had given the nation after the Constitutional Convention ;Franklin replied " a Republic if you can keep it.

Might I suggest that the founders had no intention of creating a "democracy" as it is classically defined. I would also suggest that the further we drift from the founders vision the more "problems " we find.

That is a very provocative statement and one that I would agree with in many ways. The problem is, what is a "republic"?

[tomder55]

Where did you read this from

About Franklin ?
This is a well know ancedote .There are many references to this but it was 1st found in in the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland's delegates to the Convention.
Quote by Dr. James McHenry: "A lady asked Dr. (Benjamin) Franklin, ?Well Doct..."

Representative Ron Paul uses the quote and it is a good source because he also goes further and explains what the founders meant by a republic

The term republic had a significant meaning for both of them and all early Americans. It meant a lot more than just representative government and was a form of government in stark contrast to pure democracy where the majority dictated laws and rights. And getting rid of the English monarchy was what the Revolution was all about, so a monarchy was out of the question.
The American Republic required strict limitation of government power. Those powers permitted would be precisely defined and delegated by the people, with all public officials being bound by their oath of office to uphold the Constitution. The democratic process would be limited to the election of our leaders and not used for granting special privileges to any group or individual nor for defining rights.
Federalism, the binding together loosely of the several states, would serve to prevent the concentration of power in a central government and was a crucial element in the new Republic. The authors of the Constitution wrote strict limits on the national government and strove to protect the rights and powers of the states and the people.
Dividing and keeping separate the legislative, executive, and the judiciary branches, provided the checks and balances thought needed to preserve the Republic the Constitution created and the best way to preserve individual liberty.

A Republic, If You Can Keep It