[Starman]

I probably should have seperated my agreement with maorganite and my next sentence. It would be confusing.

I agreed with Morganite that intolerance does not seem to be a trait that will self-destruct itself.

The other statement about divisiveness refers to that fact that if tolerance = good then you are basically asking which religious sect is better which presumes then that the other is less good. It bothers me when someone tells others that their religion is less good. (My English skills are superlative, no? :)) That's just my opinion of course.

It is commendable that you have respect for other people's religion. But as all matters concerning moral decisions, one has to weigh one duty against another. Here we have two, our duty to respect other people's feelings about their religion, and our duty to bring injustices to their attention if they are or seem unware that what they consider good is an injustice.

You choose the first--but I feel that the latter deserves more weight.
Actually, judging by the commentary my question has received I would say that those who choose the latter are in the majority on this forum.

[galveston]

If I understand the question correctly, Starman is not asking about individuals, but organizations. To that end, I offer these brief thoughts. 1. I don't believe there was ever a Protestant Inquisition. 2. Though not mentioned in the original question, I know of no country that is predominately Muslim where any other religion is tolerated in practice. 3. In the good old U.S.A. anyone can bring their religion in and worship any way they want to, excluding human sacrifice, of course.

[Morganite]

If I understand the question correctly, Starman is not asking about individuals, but organizations. To that end, I offer these brief thoughts.

1. I don't believe there was ever a Protestant Inquisition.
2. Though not mentioned in the original question, I know of no country that is predominately Muslim where any other religion is tolerated in practice.
3. In the good old U.S.A. anyone can bring their religion in and worship any way they want to, excluding human sacrifice, of course.

1. I direct you to Foxe's Book of Martyrs. That should bring you up to speed on Protestant persecution of Roman Catholics. During the reigns of Edward VI, Queen Mary, and Queen Elizabeth, persecutions between Catholics and Protestants were extensive and violent. American Protestants hated Irish Catholic immigrants, and the Christian inspired Ku Klux Klan hated, persecuted, and murdered Catholics, Jews, and non-Anglo Saxons. All in the good Ol' US of A! The Christian based Aryan nation, and a White Supremacist Church whose name escapes me are just as hateful and intolerant. Here and now! Christians in the US of A still have some way to go to reach Christ's ideal for treating those of different faiths. There is no mention in scripture, not even a hint of a suggestion, that Jesus spoke badly of any religion outside his own.

2. What difference it makes how other countries favour or disfavour different faiths? Are Christians called on only to be good to those who are good to them first? What did Saint Peter say about that kind of conduct? "Render not railing for railing, or cursing for cursing, but contrariwise blessing."

3. In principle the US is a tolerant country, but in practice it is not always so. Like many other countries it has its share of prejudices, whether against colour, gender, or faith. It is not perfect, but if the rleigious right will behave itself and begin to act like a rleigion and abandon their political agendas, then it will be a better place. If I was to preach a sermon on this subject, my text would be, "My kingdom is not of this world!"


It comes down to motes and beams.

[Morganite]

Though I have personally known relatively few Protestants -- being raised a Catholic myself, I am somewhat more acquainted with things from that end. I have a few Catholic friends -- most are not very tolerant of my beliefs. Generally, we rarely discuss them. :)
I have a good friend who is married to a former Catholic nun. Though they'd known me for some years, apparently, in that time he had failed to ever mention to her that I practice Buddhism. The first time she came to my home, upon looking into my bedroom and seeing all the Buddhist iconography and statuary -- she quickly made the sign of the cross a few times before hurrying from the doorway with a somewhat disconcerted look. Though she had composed herself within minutes.
Though he has made subtle attempts to perhaps "convert" me over the years, he has for the most part since given up, and agreed to let things be, somewhat respecting my choices. :)

The late British comedian, Gus Allan, of Flanagan and Allan fame, who was Jewish, told of his experience with the landlady of his theatrical digs when he played a theatre in Liverpool, England. She called him early every morning, "Because you will want to attend daily mass!"

He says he walked about every morning for an hour before going back to the boarding house and bed, but he didn't dare risk her displeasure by telling her he was Jewish.



LOL

[shygrneyzs]

I would say Catholics - the post Vatican II Catholics - are more tolerant of other religions.

[Morganite]

I would say Catholics - the post Vatican II Catholics - are more tolerant of other religions.

I would agree with you if all actually dealt with others in the spirit of VII. Expericnce shows us that not all do, and that is a matter for sorrow, even for the Vatican.

[shygrneyzs]

Not all Catholics deal with others in the spirit of the Vatican II Council. Not all Protestants deal in the spirit of religious tolerance. Not all Muslims believe in co-exisiting peacefully. A person can go on and on and never come to an end.

What I stated is just my personal belief, based on my religious upbringing and experiences.

[galveston]

1. I direct you to Foxe's Book of Martyrs. That should bring you up to speed on Protestant persecution of Roman Catholics. During the reigns of Edward VI, Queen Mary, and Queen Elizabeth, persecutions between Catholics and Protestants were extensive and violent. American Protestants hated Irish Catholic immigrants, and the Christian inspired Ku Klux Klan hated, persecuted, and murdered Catholics, Jews, and non-Anglo Saxons. All in the good Ol' US of A! The Christian based Aryan nation, and a White Supremacist Church whose name escapes me are just as hateful and intolerant. Here and now! Christians in the US of A still have some way to go to reach Christ's ideal for treating those of different faiths. There is no mention in scripture, not even a hint of a suggestion, that Jesus spoke badly of any religion outside his own.

2. What difference it makes how other countries favour or disfavour different faiths? Are Christians called on only to be good to those who are good to them first? What did Saint Peter say about that kind of conduct? "Render not railing for railing, or cursing for cursing, but contrariwise blessing."

3. In principle the US is a tolerant country, but in practice it is not always so. Like many other countries it has its share of prejudices, whether against colour, gender, or faith. It is not perfect, but if the rleigious right will behave itself and begin to act like a rleigion and abandon their political agendas, then it will be a better place. If I was to preach a sermon on this subject, my text would be, "My kingdom is not of this world!"


It comes down to motes and beams.

Your point #1. The Church of England was very little different from the Catholic Church in that era, formed so a king could divorce his wife, and Jesus was very critical of the Pharisees, a religious group. #2. We are talking tolerance, or lack thereof, here. I fail to see your point here in relation to the question. #3. How many cases can you cite where people are jailed, tortured, or denied access to services due to their religion in this country?

[sexybeasty]

Since I am married to a Catholic and know his family well, I cannot say anything bad about the Catholic faith. The Catholics I know are loving and enjoy the Christian community just as most Protestants do.

As far as accepting non Christians religions as true. It would be against the faith of Catholics and Protestants as the Bible teaches about the divinity of Christ and the Trinity and about the only way to the Father is through the Son.

That said, I have been in Protestant churches that bash Catholics. As a thoughtful Christian, I address the speaker as I think that talk, especially from the pulpit is judgemental and hurtful. It is, incidentally, usually ex-Catholics that bash their beginnings.

The fact is, everyone is different and thankfully, there are different churches to accommodate the person to make them comfortable. For instance, I have nothing against the Penticostal Church. That said, they are a bit charismatic and enthusastic for me. The person who loves to dance in Church and speak in tongues should love this form of worshipping. It has a place for a lot of Christians.

Hope I was helpful. Have a blessed day.

[galveston]

A passing thought: Tolerance is not the same thing as agreement. We may argue loud and long over something, but at the same time tolerate the other person, knowing that he is certainly allowed his opinion. We may never agree.

[JoeCanada76]

In general, who are more tolerant of differing religeous views--Protestants or Catholics?

I do not know. What does it really matter. Does not matter to me. What is important is that fighting and division between certain denominations end. That we all come together with our belief of Christ and stop looking at the differences but look at what we all believe to be the same and learn how to except and love each other unconditionally.

Joe

[Retrotia]

I do not know. What does it really matter. Does not matter to me. What is important is that fighting and division between certain denominations end. That we all come together with our belief of Christ and stop looking at the differences but look at what we all believe to be the same and learn how to except and love each other unconditionally.

Joe

Yes, we (Christians ) are all the same. We have the promise of Jesus. That pretty much covers it for me.
I agree with what you said - except we don't love each other unconditionally. For love, to be love, inherently has to have its boundaries & standards. If (hypothetically speaking of course) I killed your mother, you would still love me, right? Unconditionally, right? See my point? You can just say "love one another" instead of the condition or uncondition and then I would agree with the entire post. Cheers!

[sexybeasty]

Retro:Loving unconditionally is not an emotion, It is praying for enemys as well as friends and family. It is the act of not hating when sometimes the actions can be hateful.

[JoeCanada76]

Thank you sexybeasty,

Praying for enemies as well as friends and family. The act of not hating even when the actions of other can be hateful.

You said it right there. I do believe Retrotia will understand what I meant better now.

[Retrotia]

Sure, I understand what seybeasty says about praying is a kind of unconditional love. And not hating back someone who hates you is a kind of unconditional love, but I never said I had a problem with any other kind of denomination of Christian, so I'm glad you figured it out anyway!
Jesushelper, you need to not be so sensitive & fly off the handle so easily. I can tell by your post you were practically shouting.

[sexybeasty]

O.K. now you two need to kiss and make up... mother says. LOL

AND clean your rooms!!

[Retrotia]

I think I just had my 1st falling out with some of another Christian denomination! LOL:o

[sexybeasty]

Yeah retro, mama almost put you two in the corner and you can forget dessert. O.K. you can have a little ice cream. I'm such a softee. Hee hee.

[Morganite]

Your point #1. The Church of England was very little different from the Catholic Church in that era, formed so a king could divorce his wife, and Jesus was very critical of the Pharisees, a religious group. #2. We are talking tolerance, or lack thereof, here. I fail to see your point here in relation to the question. #3. How many cases can you cite where people are jailed, tortured, or denied access to services due to their religion in this country?

1. The Anglican Church had a much broader base than Henry's divorce. Check it out.
2. Tolerance is a dirty word to some Christians. I am, not of their number.

3. The Ku Klux Klan, a Christian organisation that had new life breathed into it after WW II by a Mehtodist Minister hates Jews and Catholics, and has tortured, maimed, lynched, abused, and prevented many from exercising their loegal right to cast a vote. All in the name of Protestant White Racial Superiority in the USA. Where have you been?

Irish immigranmtsn were treated as second class citizens because they were catholics swamping a Protestant country. The Chinese who built the railroads were treated the same because they were heathens.

Those who will not learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

M:)

[JoeCanada76]

Hello I thought we were having an open discussion? :o

Not a falling out? :eek:

I was just trying to state the sexybeasty said it so well. I was pointing that out. How I feel the same way and I wanted to mention that to you Retro that, sexybeasty said it best and that is how I feel too. For some reason all weirdness happened.

I do not get it on how all the wierdness came from? If you could fill me in that would be great! :D


Joe


P.S.

Sexybeasty I enjoy your sense of humour and making things light. Do you want Retro and I too kiss and make up now? Here it is. The best I could do. :p