[Wondergirl]

I'll find something else to tease you about.

[J_9]

I'll find something else to tease you about.

I knew there was a joke in there somewhere.

I just wonder if medical science has gone too far... ya know?

[Wondergirl]

i just wonder if medical science has gone too far...ya know?

I feel the same way. And it's the same at the other end of life. I know of families that push the doctors to do extraordinary things to keep Grandma alive. The hospitals have the necessary equipment, so, if Grandma hasn't set up a Living Will, she becomes a victim of loved ones who won't let her go.

[Synnen]

I'm on the fence about this one.

If it weren't for the miracle of modern science, I'd be losing my ovaries and probably my uterus too, next week.

But... how can we justify some of the things that are done with it? Where is the dignity and best interest of the patient?

I'm glad that for the most part those that are making the final decisions are people with compassionate hearts, who truly try to do the best they can for each patient.

People like our J9.

[J_9]

If it weren't for the miracle of modern science, I'd be losing my ovaries and probably my uterus too, next week.

But...how can we justify some of the things that are done with it? Where is the dignity and best interest of the patient?

I guess this expands my thoughts for this thread.

When have we gone too far?

[Synnen]

I'm going to counter with a question of my own, J. Simply because I think it's related, though it's probably not the answer to your question:

Why do we feel we have to save EVERY life?

[J_9]

Why do we feel we have to save EVERY life?

That is part of my dilemma as well. Have people forgotten that there is a quality of life issue?

[Synnen]

I haven't.

That's part of why I've always been for laws allowing assisted suicide, and why I believe that pro-choice is the ONLY option we should have.

The argument is that we shouldn't choose to save some people over others SOLELY because of a quality of life standard. Wouldn't that mean we choose rich over poor, and completely healthy over those with a congenital disease or deformity? Should a child born to a homeless woman be given less a chance than a child born to a woman living on Madison Avenue?

When we start deciding on the medical aspect of such choices, then we have to look at the societal aspect: If the rich are fitter to live because of quality of life standards (and please note that this is just an easy example), then when laws go into effect regarding overpopulation and reproductive "rights", are we going to sterilize anyone born to a household of less than "x" income, because a child born to rich parents has a better chance?

It's a snowball effect, and I know it.

It's just sad that we feel that we must condemn someone to a life we ourselves would not want.

[Wondergirl]

That is part of my dilemma as well. Have people forgotten that there is a quality of life issue?

But who determines which life has quality? Does the life of a healthy newborn with Down's have quality? Does a terminally ill cancer patient's life have quality? Does the life of a soldier who returned from Iraq with terrible burns have quality? Does a 70-year-old homeless guy's life have quality? Does an imprisoned serial killer's life have quality?

[J_9]

This was the kind of discussion I was looking for.

My situation, while partially true, due to HIPAA laws, was partially hypothetical as well.

[Synnen]

The things coming out in this discussion are parts of the reason I don't want to have government controlled health care. Yes, some of the lines on who gets treated for what medical conditions in what way are arbitrary. I think we'd see MORE arbitrary lines if the gov't was involved--and more people screaming "discrimination" when none was intended.

Bah. Some days I'm tempted to say "kill them all and let God sort them out". Other days I think an IQ test should be mandatory, and treatment based on your score. But--those are my cynical (Synnical? ) days.

[Alty]

Synnical! That made me laugh.

I Altyernate my Synnical days. ;)

[JudyKayTee]

I'll add a question to a question - I have serious problems with "quality of life" issues. I've posted before that my late husband had a DNR order and a very comprehensive living will - he was resuscitated 4 times. I found out about the first time because he had actual marks from the "paddles" on his body.

He had a very explicit order regarding what he wanted and did not want - he was put on a respirator against his wishes.

I was unable to take him off life support until an Attorney intervened - and my husband was unconscious, unaware, in a fetal position, convulsing several times a day, brain dead (which tests proved), with his eyes open, totally lost to me.

It was a nightmare and I will NEVER get those images out of my mind.

Who should determine quality of life - the patent who had all his paperwork in place; the hospital; the Doctors; the family; the next of kin?

[Catsmine]

I'll add a question to a question - I have serious problems with "quality of life" issues. I've posted before that my late husband had a DNR order and a very comprehensive living will - he was resuscitated 4 times. I found out about the first time because he had actual marks from the "paddles" on his body.

He had a very explicit order regarding what he wanted and did not want - he was put on a respirator against his wishes.

I was unable to take him off life support until an Attorney intervened - and my husband was unconscious, unaware, in a fetal position, convulsing several times a day, brain dead (which tests proved), with his eyes open, totally lost to me.

It was a nightmare and I will NEVER get those images out of my mind.

Who should determine quality of life - the patent who had all his paperwork in place; the hospital; the Doctors; the family; the next of kin?

I'll give you my solution. My living will allows the medical staff to do whatever they want to do, but instructs the administrators that the hospital has to pay for it once I have gone 24 hours with no alpha-wave activity. I've also donated my body and organs for research so I consider anything after I've left the corpus to be research. The lawyer that filed it says it should stand.

[JudyKayTee]

I'll give you my solution. My living will allows the medical staff to do whatever they want to do, but instructs the administrators that the hospital has to pay for it once I have gone 24 hours with no alpha-wave activity. I've also donated my body and organs for research so I consider anything after I've left the corpus to be research. The lawyer that filed it says it should stand.

I would like to see the wording on this so I can give it to my Lawyer - I'm not aware if this would hold up in NY but, if so, this would solve MY problem!

[Catsmine]

I would like to see the wording on this so I can give it to my Lawyer - I'm not aware if this would hold up in NY but, if so, this would solve MY problem!

I'll try to dig it out and scan a copy. Might take a while, it's in the safe deposit box.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, it is a hard choice, again for HIPAA . Young person( 18 to 25) with serious brain injury. I am not sure they are aware that I am in the room, they have no control of any body movement and have to be cared for like an infant, There is no opinion that they will improve.

They have to have their body repositioned every few hours, have to be fed by tubes.

[twinkiedooter]

Some babies come into this world only for a very short duration. It is their choice. We have nothing to do with what their choice is. Some babies do not have the will to live like other babies do.

J_9 you did everything you could have. The baby just chose not to live regardless of what you did or didn't do.

[J_9]

Some babies come into this world only for a very short duration. It is their choice. We have nothing to do with what their choice is. Some babies do not have the will to live like other babies do.

J_9 you did everything you could have. The baby just chose not to live regardless of what you did or didn't do.

Actually, that baby is still alive

[0rphan]

In my opinion, there is no decision to be made, you would make every effort to safe the babies life... no question.