[arcura]

sndbay,
Yes, that is true, Jesus Christ's sacrifice was once and for all, but the statute of the New Covenant of flesh and blood goes on now from the time Jesus established it and He said that the consecrated bread and wine IS His flesh and blood.
I believe what Jesus said.
So therefore any commandment He gave us during His ministry here was of His living and dying flesh and blood.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay,
Yes, that is true, Jesus Christ's sacrifice was once and for all, but the statute of the New Covenant of flesh and blood goes on now from the time Jesus established it and He said that the consecrated bread and wine IS His flesh and blood.

Fred the New Covenant remains law in body of prophetic teaching . Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant. The same spiritual meat and drink because it is the old commandment that was the word from the beginning sent new in HIS flesh that dwelled amoung us.

Hebrew 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel

There is no continued enactment of blood sacrifice because the Blood of Christ was complete and worthy in sanctifying us.

Further understand by reviewing what was suffered by Christ would example the truth. The statutes were not suffered to be continued. That is because we acknowledge we are sanctified through HIS offering once done! (Those that believe in HIS worthiness)

Hebrew 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all


Fred it is man's teaching concerning consecrated bread and wine, not Jesus. In the Roman Catholic Church the word Consecration denotes those actions by which the Eucharist and the wine are transformed in to the body and blood of Christ. In Orthodox Churches like the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Eastern Catholic Church Consecration is the response from the divine to the Epiclesis where the priest calls upon the Holy Ghost.

This is not written in scripture. Please referance any scripture that speaks of consecration, or that the enactment of blood sacrifices need to be offered continuely as they were before.

I believe what was written as the WORD of GOD. And HIS Word that I have referanced says it was not suffered to continue.


~Grace be with you all

[De Maria]

De Maria,
But baptisim properly done is by water and spirit in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Did Paul do that or just laid his hands on them?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

He baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Then he performed what we call the Sacrament of Confirmation them by laying hands on them.

[De Maria]

There is no continued enactment of blood sacrifice because the Blood of Christ was complete and worthy in sanctifying us.

Scripture condemns them who miss the Assembly precisely because there is an enactment of Jesus' Blood Sacrifice during the Mass:
Heb 10
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

And as is plain in the fact that we keep Christ's commandment:

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

! Cor 11 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

Fred it is man's teaching concerning consecrated bread and wine, not Jesus.

1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

The blessing and the breaking are the "consecration".

God bless you,

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

SANCTIFIED in the blood of Christ (to separate from profane things and dedicate to God, to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin, to purify internally by renewing of the soul)

How are you sanctified by the Blood of Christ? We are sanctified by His Blood when we partake of Holy Eucharist:
1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

We NOW boldly enter through the veil by the blood of Christ, because HE did SANCTIFIED us, by a new and living way.

Yes. By Holy Communion. That is why missing the Mass is a mortal sin:
Hebrews 10:29
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Christ is the high priest of the house of God
(Hebrew 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God)

Note this as a question:
Hebrew 7:11" If " therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Note the oath of priesthood being made, and the commandment of statues being disannulling = (abolition, disannulling, put away, rejection) and changed for the new way, new covenant, the better way.

Exactly! The Old Priesthood abolished the New established.

Note that the shadow is cast.

Jesus is High Priest in heaven. He casts the shadow which produced the High Priests who entered beyond the veil into the presence of God.

The priests who ministered in the outer court , the Levites, were produced by the shadow cast by the ministerial priests.

And our lay priesthood of believers cast the shadow which produced the Nation of Israel.

Priesthood statutes ended

Hebrew 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death

That is speaking of the Levitical priesthood.
11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

But that priesthood was done away and replaced by the good things which came, the priesthood of Jesus Christ.

12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Note that the priesthood was changed, not done away.

~Grace be with you all

And to you!

[arcura]

De Maria,
Thanks for your answer to my question.
Also thanks for your excellent answers to sndbay.
By the way I went to your website at De Maria and began to read some of what was there.
You dealing with evolution and the Big Bank theory were very good.
I must go back and absorb the remainder of the subjects cover there.
I wonder how many here have experienced that web site.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

Scripture condemns them who miss the Assembly precisely because there is an enactment of Jesus' Blood Sacrifice during the Mass:
Heb 10
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This was not an assembly of Mass missed. (Hebrews 10:28-29) is teaching how anyone that might despise the New Covenant law set in the Blood of Christ, as some were known to do with Moses law of the old covenant.
That they would die a punishment of greater sorer. For anyone to think the blood of Christ was unholy thing, or unvalued, unworthy, unable to scanctify, and despite or insult the Spirit of grace.

Christ having built HIS house of many members has more honour then the house built of hands , because every house that is built actually is built by God who built all things. Christ is a Son over His own house, and we rejoice in being of HIS house.

If people do not hear HIS voice, when satan tempts them. It does grieve God as it did when Moses people err in their heart.

God sware in HIS wrath, that they will not enter into HIS REST.
(Hebrews 3:3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11)

The blessing and the breaking are the "consecration".

God bless you,

Sincerely,

De Maria

I believe Christ told HIS disciples to feed HIS sheep. What is fed to the many members is the cup of the New Testament, (1 Corinthinas 11:25) and that is what was suffered on the cross to bear record both blood and water (John 19:34-36) We are able to gather together in HIS name, as few as two or three, knowing HE is with us (Matthew 18:20) To be one in the body of the bread (Romans 12:4 Col 3:15 )

NOTE: Abolished even the law contained in ordinances (what is legal, proper, fitting, custom, behavior)

Eph 2:15-16 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby



So the communion in the body and blood of Christ is the embodiment and proof of fellowship with Christ = YES we have that blessing in Christ

1 Corinthinas 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 Corinthians 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.


~Grace be with you all this Thanksgiving Day

[De Maria]

This was not an assembly of Mass missed.

Heb 10
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

(Hebrews 10:28-29) is teaching how anyone that might despise the New Covenant law set in the Blood of Christ, as some were known to do with Moses law of the old covenant.

That is partially true. However, you are ignoring that one despises the New Covenant Law set in the Blood of Christ by missing the Mass wherein one partakes of the Blood of Christ. Therefore St. Paul goes on to say:

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The sacrifice to which he refers is the Eucharistic sacrifice. To which sacrifice do you think he was referring since all other sacrifices have been abolished and it is against Reformed doctrine to believe that any person can sacrifice personally in atonement for his own sin?

That they would die a punishment of greater sorer. For anyone to think the blood of Christ was unholy thing, or unvalued, unworthy, unable to scanctify, and despite or insult the Spirit of grace.

That isn't the case at all. You have missed the point. St. Paul says:
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified

The individual who commits this sin may believe that the cup is truly the Blood of Christ and that the bread is truly the Body of Christ. But in willingly missing the Mass, he has put HIMSELF above Christ:

Matthew 10: 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

~Grace be with you all this Thanksgiving Day

And to you as well,

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

De Maria,
Thanks for your answer to my question.
Also thanks for your excellent answers to sndbay.
By the way I went to your website at De Maria and began to read some of what was there.
You dealing with evolution and the Big Bank theory were very good.
I must go back and absorb the remainder of the subjects cover there.
I wonder how many here have experienced that web site.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Thanks Fred.

You seem like a person thirsty for knowledge. There's a website:
Lighthouse Catholic media

If you purchase anything, please enter compcode 3239.

[sndbay]

Heb 10
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

DEMaria, the assembling of ourselves does not necessarily mean a religious service in Mass as the traditions of man have presented today
(Hebrews 10:24-25) is the duty to accept exhortation, and goes on warning in view of God being the living God.

Accept Exhortation

We can gather together unto Christ by assembling together with as few as two or three in HIS name. Think back, to what was in those days, how the apostles came to gather. Just as it was shown when Jesus gathered with HIS disciples in one room of a man home that prepared for passover. (Matthew 26:17-19)

Exhortation is written of in 2 Thessalonians.
Note that: 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him

Note the truth being that : (2 Thessalonies 2:2-3-4) is exhortation negative, the man of sin, and his sinful acts . (2 Thessalonies 2:5-6) was Jesus spoke of remembering all that HE had foretold, and is exhortation postive.

That is partially true. However, you are ignoring that one despises the New Covenant Law set in the Blood of Christ by missing the Mass wherein one partakes of the Blood of Christ. Therefore St. Paul goes on to say:

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

The sacrifice to which he refers is the Eucharistic sacrifice. To which sacrifice do you think he was referring since all other sacrifices have been abolished and it is against Reformed doctrine to believe that any person can sacrifice personally in atonement for his own sin?

DEMaria, this is on the general assumption given to you by the Catholic church in thinking that men are sinful, and remain in their sin unless they come to Mass. Facts are that the Catholic religion teaches that the many members are sinners. And because of the teacing of purgatory, you assume your soul on earth are not free from sin. The Catholic religion follows a teaching of a different rock by the name of Peter. That rock is what you believe as reveal truth.

I follow ONE Lord in the name of Christ, and HE is my Rock revealed in Love for HIM. So you see there is a difference between our general assumptions. I believe in the Spirit of grace. I trust MY Rock=Christ as the revealed truth given to me by our Father through the HOLY SPIRIT. I believe we were set free from sin by the blood of Christ. And when we confess our ONE Faith, in the begotten Son of God as ONE Lord, we are sancified in Christ. We once were the sheep going astray but NOW are returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls. When confessed faith is within the heart, we come forward in the spirit of Christ to ONE Baptism.

Scripture says ONCE to die, (Hebrew 9:27) I confess that once to die is with Christ on the cross, and followed in being raised in Baptism to newness of life. The other choice is death with satan. If we believe scripture as (Word of God), the bread of life, HIS flesh, then you are fed by Christ in hearing HIS voice. (John 4:14)

I rejoice and boast in the law of Faith. (Romans 3:27)

So if we know not to sin and decide to sin, we are in trouble walking with satan.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Sometimes we just do not know the difference, and are asleep. That is why we are told to watch, and submit ourselves to God, resisting the devil, and he will flee from us. In the name of Christ Jesus, Amen

We were also told not to call man common or unclean because our Father has called all. It becomes choice then in free will to follow Chirst .


~May you be all that God created you to be, in Christ

[sndbay]

What truth should be recognized in these scriptures of the OT, Numbers, and Exodus according to the NEW COVENANT in Christ ?

From what the previous posting have shown, the statutes were done away with becase Christ was the one final offering of scarifice for our sin. (Hebrew 7:11)(Hebrews 7:23) And the ordinances of the commandment law were abolished in HIS flesh (Eph 2:15-16)]

According to (Numbers 9:13) OT, the legal custom and behavior for passover, known as the ordinance for passover was appointed to a season. It was not proper to neglect this ordinance, and the failure of this would result in consequence to bear a sinful soul.

According to (Exodus 16:4) OT, God proves mankind, and it would be done like rain falling as a feeding of bread from heaven, gathered daily by a certain rate to determine the out come of how each man would follow the law of God ( the schoolmaster )

I believe our daily bread remains in the Word of God, and is the revealed truth that comes to us from our Father, by the Comforter in the HOLY SPIRIT. That no private interpretation comes from man (2 Peter 1:20-21) And that Christ will increase faith when your duty as servants is fruitful, and not if you are unprofitable. (Luke 17:5)(Matthew 25:30)

~in Christ

[De Maria]

DEMaria, the assembling of ourselves does not necessarily mean a religious service in Mass as the traditions of man have presented today

It is Tradition of God which dates back to before Christ.

(Hebrews 10:24-25) is the duty to accept exhortation, and goes on warning in view of God being the living God.

The problem is that you are reading it according to your tradition which is unfortunately of man and not of God.

Accept Exhortation

We can gather together unto Christ by assembling together with as few as two or three in HIS name. Think back, to what was in those days, how the apostles came to gather. Just as it was shown when Jesus gathered with HIS disciples in one room of a man home that prepared for passover. (Matthew 26:17-19)

It is the same today. Where there are a few of us, we gather a few. Where there are many, we gather many. Where there is no money for a building we gather in homes.

Exhortation is written of in 2 Thessalonians.
Note that: 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him

So is gathering.

Note the truth being that : (2 Thessalonies 2:2-3-4) is exhortation negative, the man of sin, and his sinful acts . (2 Thessalonies 2:5-6) was Jesus spoke of remembering all that HE had foretold, and is exhortation postive.

I have no idea what you mean. But the verse speaks of "gathering" unto Him.

DEMaria, this is on the general assumption given to you by the Catholic church in thinking that men are sinful, and remain in their sin unless they come to Mass. Facts are that the Catholic religion teaches that the many members are sinners. And because of the teacing of purgatory, you assume your soul on earth are not free from sin. The Catholic religion follows a teaching of a different rock by the name of Peter. That rock is what you believe as reveal truth.

I can see that you don't understand what the Catholic Church teaches.
DEMaria, this is on the general assumption given to you by the Catholic church in thinking that men are sinful,

It is Protestants who teach that men are "Totally depraved" and thus totally sinful. The Catholic Church teaches that men are made in the image of God, and are by nature good, but our nature is fallen. But not incurably so. The Saints which the Church canonizes are examples of men who have overcome their fallen nature on earth.

and remain in their sin unless they come to Mass.

According to Hebrews 10, a man who misses the Mass sins against the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Something similar is said in another verse:
1 Corinthians 11:27
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

This would not be a problem if it were a mere symbol. One would not be guilty of killing Jesus again if a mere symbol were defamed.

Heb 6
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Facts are that the Catholic religion teaches that the many members are sinners.

This is the teaching of Scripture. Do you not understand the teaching of the weeds in the wheat?

And because of the teacing of purgatory, you assume your soul on earth are not free from sin.

Purgatory teaches that some will die in an imperfect state of grace. Do you know anyone who is at anytime perfect, without blemish. It is Luther who claims that we are "snow covered dunghills". Therefore it is your Reformed tradition which teaches that men are sinners as your tradition is descended from Luther and Calvin (Total Depravity).

The Catholic religion follows a teaching of a different rock by the name of Peter.

A Rock of Christ's choosing. It is He who renamed Simon.
John 1:42
And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

That rock is what you believe as reveal truth.

It is in black and white in Scripture:
Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I follow ONE Lord in the name of Christ, and HE is my Rock revealed in Love for HIM.

I follow those whom Jesus appointed to be my leaders as Scripture prescribes:
Hebrews 13:7
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

In accepting them, I accept Christ:
Matt 10
40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

So you see there is a difference between our general assumptions.

Agreed. First and foremost is the idea of Sola Scriptura which is not in the Bible and thus by its own criteria proves itself false.

I believe in the Spirit of grace.

As do I.

I trust MY Rock=Christ as the revealed truth given to me by our Father through the HOLY SPIRIT.

As do I. It is because I trust Christ that I trust those whom He installed over me.

I believe we were set free from sin by the blood of Christ.

As do I. That is why I partake of that Blood in every Mass:
1 Corinthians 10:16
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

And when we confess our ONE Faith, in the begotten Son of God as ONE Lord, we are sancified in Christ.

But more profoundly blessed when we unite ourselves to Him body and soul in the Holy Eucharist:
John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

We once were the sheep going astray but NOW are returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls. When confessed faith is within the heart, we come forward in the spirit of Christ to ONE Baptism.

But it is in the Holy Eucharist that we proclaim His Gospel by our actions:
1 Corinthians 11:26
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

You see, you still await Christ's second coming. But we experience His Parousia in every Mass:
Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Scripture says ONCE to die, (Hebrew 9:27)

Yes it does.

I confess that once to die is with Christ on the cross, and followed in being raised in Baptism to newness of life.

A very Catholic Teaching which you follow. We also die with Christ on the Cross. A belief for which we are generally unmercifully ridiculed by Protestants.

Now tell me, how do you dies with Christ on the Cross as you aren't really on the Cross with Christ. To us this teaching confirms the efficacy of our suffering for the cleansing of sin. As St. Paul also says:
Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

On the Cross, Jesus suffered for us. For whom are you suffering on the Cross?

The other choice is death with satan. If we believe scripture as (Word of God), the bread of life, HIS flesh, then you are fed by Christ in hearing HIS voice. (John 4:14)

Certainly. But we are more profoundly fed by His actual Body and Blood in the guise of Bread and Wine.

I rejoice and boast in the law of Faith. (Romans 3:27)

It is only by faith that one can see Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

So if we know not to sin and decide to sin, we are in trouble walking with satan.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Sometimes we just do not know the difference, and are asleep. That is why we are told to watch, and submit ourselves to God, resisting the devil, and he will flee from us. In the name of Christ Jesus, Amen

Amen!

[quote]We were also told not to call man common or unclean because our Father has called all. It becomes choice then in free will to follow Chirst .

Amen.

~May you be all that God created you to be, in Christ

And you as well. May God continue to bless you with His Word!

[sndbay]

This is the teaching of Scripture. Do you not understand the teaching of the weeds in the wheat?

I trust in Christ that I do. (Matthew13:24-25) The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Matthew 13:9 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

You see, you still await Christ's second coming. But we experience His Parousia in every Mass:
Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Yes I do keep watch for the second coming of Christ. He has foretold us of HIS coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


If the Catholic church teaches you experience the return of Christ in each Mass, then what of the scripture (Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. )

A very Catholic Teaching which you follow. We also die with Christ on the Cross. A belief for which we are generally unmercifully ridiculed by Protestants.

Now tell me, how do you dies with Christ on the Cross as you aren't really on the Cross with Christ. To us this teaching confirms the efficacy of our suffering for the cleansing of sin. As St. Paul also says:
Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

On the Cross, Jesus suffered for us. For whom are you suffering on the Cross?

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

Do we permit man to give us vinegar when we thrist? We suffer the death of sin or the death with Christ on the cross. When we thirst we drink of the water Christ has offered. The water that is given to us and is in us.

We have to watch carefully to the last word of what is taught by man, just as the Word of God has told us. The word that is sown in our hearts can be taken away if we sleep. We suffer daily at the hands of satan that will immediately take away the word that was sown in our hearts, being then beguiled as Eve was in the garden, if we do not watch to stay awake. This is the suffering we do daily(to walk as Christ walked in righteousness), and as Paul wrote gladly willing to die daily.(with Christ and not with satan)

John 19:34-35 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

And you as well. May God continue to bless you with His Word!

~in Christ

[sndbay]

Do you know anyone who is at anytime perfect, without blemish.

I can discern that you don't believe that is possible.

When unity as one with Christ having the spirit, we are made perfect and without blemish. It is to hold stedfast in the fullness of Christ, by ONE Faith ONE Lord ONE Baptism, and ONE God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard HIM, and have been taught by HIM, as the truth is in Jesus

Eph 4: 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

DEMaria, I trust in Christ, that our mortal bodies are quicken by HIS Spirit and will dwell within us, if we believe. This is the newness of life (ONE Baptism), while we walk having the spirit of Christ.(ONE Lord) We are able to walk in righteousness. (ONE Faith)

But as the parable of the wine bottle tells us. The old is not mixed with the NEW or it will spoil and perish. And some will not willing drink of the NEW because they desire the old. (Luke 5:39)

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I believe the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled in us, the royal law, the law of ONE Faith. (Romans 8:4 James 2:8 Romans 3:27)


~Grace be with you all


John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

Revel 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[elscarta]

The Catholic religion follows a teaching of a different rock by the name of Peter. That rock is what you believe as reveal truth.

I follow ONE Lord in the name of Christ, and HE is my Rock revealed in Love for HIM. So you see there is a difference between our general assumptions. I believe in the Spirit of grace. I trust MY Rock=Christ as the revealed truth given to me by our Father through the HOLY SPIRIT.

Sndbay, if you really trust your Rock=Christ then you would also trust the rock that the Catholic religion follows, i.e. Peter, for Jesus said

Matthew 16
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Peter is the rock that Jesus built his church upon and Jesus told Peter that his decisions will be upheld in heaven so why do you deny the authority of Peter and the Catholic Church?

[sndbay]

Peter is the rock that Jesus built his church upon and Jesus told Peter that his decisions will be upheld in heaven so why do you deny the authority of Peter and the Catholic Church?

What was unyeilding about Peter was his love for Christ. (John 21:15) so Peter was told feed the sheep.

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

I have no doubt of authority given to Peter because of his confessed love in Christ Jesus.

It would agree with the rendered confession in (1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession)

And a profession to his authority in being (1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.)

However it is the confession that laid the foundation to which Christ referred, and not to Peter himself.

Peter was neither the foundation nor the builder, because none other then Christ as written in (1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.)

The Rock immovable, the Messiah as being the Son of the living God who is the foretold "foundation stone"
(Isa 28:15 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.)

It is love for Christ Jesus that the gate of hell shall not prevail against. And given is the keys of the kingdom known to us in the Key of David.

For the power to open, Christ has the keys of Hades, Peter was given the keys of the Kingdom on earth, The power Peter exercised in Act 2 in Isreal and Act 10 among the Gentiles.

The power was given to others as written in (Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven)
You must read the examples given.

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

And authority exercised in (Acts 5:1 thr) (Acts 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things)

~in Christ

[sndbay]

Hear His voice before making a lie out of what Christ foretold to HIS disciples.Who sits on the right or left hand of Christ?
(Matthew 20:23 & Mark 10:37)

[elscarta]

However it is the confession that laid the foundation to which Christ referred, and not to Peter himself.

Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter(which means rock/stone) so the word "rock" in Matthew 16:18 refers to Simon/Peter not to his confession. Jesus did not call Simon's confession "rock" but Simon himself!

God rarely changes the names of people in the Bible; Abram, Sarai, and Jacob are the only other ones that I can recall) Each time it was to signify a new direction in their lives, a new mission. So when Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter he was singling out Peter and giving him a new mission.

Peter was neither the foundation nor the builder, because none other then Christ as written in (1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.)

No one is claiming that Peter is the foundation stone, just the first of the stones to be laid upon the foundation stone of Christ. Nor does anyone claim that Peter is the builder, but rather the foreman put in charge of the workers. This is the new mission and change in direction in Peter's life.

It is love for Christ Jesus that the gate of hell shall not prevail against.

I disagree, "it" at the end of the Matthew 16:18 refers to "my church". The love for Christ Jesus is not mentioned in the verse.

For the power to open, Christ has the keys of Hades, Peter was given the keys of the Kingdom on earth, The power Peter exercised in Act 2 in Isreal and Act 10 among the Gentiles.

The power was given to others as written in (Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.)

The others that the power was also given to were the Apostles, the first bishops. The College of Bishops of which the Pope is the head is the modern version of the College of Apostles with Peter as their head.

No other Apostle's name was changed by Jesus but Peter and Jesus did not tell any other Apostle to "feed my sheep". This shows that Jesus singled out Peter to give him a special role as head of his church here on Earth.

Now the work of building Christ's Church here on Earth is not finished so there must still be a foreman in charge i.e. the Pope!

[arcura]

elscarta,
I agree with you on most of that, but Jesus did change other name such as he change the name of the tax collector Levi to Mathew.
Also regarding the phrase "the gates of hell will not prevail against it", keep in mind that a gate is a bulwark (barricade) to keep intruders out. The Church's mission is to spiritually enter hell to save, via the flesh and blood of our savior, the souls of everyone destined there, that is all sinners.
Let us hope and pray that it is very successful.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

Now the work of building Christ's Church here on Earth is not finished so there must still be a foreman in charge ie the Pope!

1st Let me say that I believe the church is the body of Christ (Col 1:24)
(Col 2:9-10), (Col 2:17)
And those that believe are the many members that abide in HIM and HIM in them. (Romans 12:5 1 Corinthians 6:15 1 Corinthians 12:27 John 15:4)

The church is the temple that fell and was raised again in three days not made by hands. (Mark 14:58)

Any members of the body that does evil is cut off.
( Matthew 5:3 Mark 2:9 )


This thread is not questioning the greater source of influence leading the world of religion. However I believe Christ was and always will be the Word of God that dwell among us to fulfill scripture as the will of God. HIS voice will always be the influence I follow.

Col 2:12-13 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with HIM through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised HIM from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses


The work of God was done in Christ and we REST in Him.


For information and as an example to what you follow, perhaps it is the strife among the disciple that took place and what was their heart desired. They wanted to know who would be the greater among them.

Luke 22:24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

Hear HIS Voice

Luke 22:25-26 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

Luke 22:27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

Luke 22:28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

This is all the disciples appointed not just Peter

Luke 22:29-30 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Attention Simon Peter
Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


It is Off thread to focus on a single denomination. I have spoken of scripture and the final statutes in the blood of Christ Jesus in the thread presented.

~in Christ