[phlanx]

Hello:

You guys are bonkers. If the part of government you DON'T like says there's a pandemic, you go - wait just a minute here....

But, if the part of government you ADORE says we need to search everybody's emails WITHOUT a warrant, you're right there....

Silly Republicans.

excon

Hang on

Ex, are you saying that the very people who value feedom of choice at any cost, welcome the idea of intrusion of privacy?

[ETWolverine]

Hello:

You guys are bonkers. If the part of government you DON'T like says there's a pandemic, you go - wait just a minute here....

But, if the part of government you ADORE says we need to search everybody's emails WITHOUT a warrant, you're right there....

Silly Republicans.

excon

Real concerns over national security...

False alarms over H1N1...

Yeah... it's all the same.

Hee hee

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

Hang on

Ex, are you saying that the very people who value feedom of choice at any cost, welcome the idea of intrusion of privacy?

It comes back to those three areas that the Constitution says the Government is there to deal with...

1) National security - protection from enemies both foreign and domestic,
2) physical infrastructure - maintenance of roads, tunnels, bridges and highways,
3) Economy - maintaining an environment that allows people to conduct business, gain wealth and produce products without interference.

The USA Patriot Act, which allows the government to listen in on phone calls between US nationals and foreign terrorists, falls within #1 above, and is therefore a legitimate function of the government.

Again, the Constitution is the ruling document.

Elliot

[phlanx]

It comes back to those three areas that the Constitution says the Government is there to deal with...

1) National security - protection from enemies both foreign and domestic,
2) physical infrastructure - maintenance of roads, tunnels, bridges and highways,
3) Economy - maintaining an environment that allows people to conduct business, gain wealth and produce products without interferance.

The USA Patriot Act, which allows the government to listen in on phone calls between US nationals and foreign terrorists, falls within #1 above, and is therefore a legitimate function of the government.

Again, the Constitution is the ruling document.

Elliot

I understand that, and as for me I would want my government to have the ability to listen in on potential threats to national security, but ex stated "private" emails - so it is a case they have this right now or is it only in connection with national security?

[excon]

Again, the Constitution is the ruling document.

Hello again, Elliot:

It is, and I can read. Slowly, every so slowly, those laws that the dufus pushed through, including the misnamed Patriot Act, ARE being adjudged UNCONSTITUTIONAL by a very right wing Supreme Court...

So, as it turns out, the parts of government you ADORE are as UNCONSTITUTIONAL as those parts you decry.

In terms of what phlanx is interested in, they are collecting ALL our emails and ALL our telephone calls and running them through a program looking for certain key words. It's as UNAMERICAN, and UNCONSTITUTIONAL as you get.

excon

[ETWolverine]

I understand that, and as for me I would want my government to have the ability to listen in on potential threats to national security, but ex stated "private" emails - so it is a case they have this right now or is it only in connection with national security?

Under the USA Patriot Act they only have the right to listen in on private conversations between foreign sources and domestic sources. This includes phone and electronic communications, including e-mail. They cannot tap purely domestic communications (between two domestic sources) without a warrant.

Elliot

[phlanx]

Under the USA Patriot Act they only have the right to listen in on private conversations between foreign sources and domestic sources. This includes phone and electronic communications, including e-mail. They cannot tap purely domestic communications (between two domestic sources) without a warrant.

Elliot

Cheers mate

[tomder55]

Yes the Patriot Act restricts this activity . Prior to that the Echelon system the Clintonoids used with it's blanket electronic snooping was perfectly acceptable if I was to judge the reaction of the left.

[inthebox]

Swine flu deaths higher in older kids - Swine flu- msnbc.com

1918 Influenza Pandemic | CDC EID




JAMA -- Critically Ill Patients With 2009 Influenza A(H1N1) in Mexico, October 12, 2009, Domnguez-Cherit et al. 0 (2009): 2009.1536

As of August 30, 2009, the World Health Organization reported 254 206 cases of 2009 influenza A(H1N1) and 2837 deaths, for a case-fatality rate of approximately 1%—yet this may well be an overestimate, because testing is no longer being reported in many jurisdictions.2 The case-fatality rate in previous influenza pandemics has varied widely, and all such reports may be inaccurate owing to difficulty in assessing the denominator (ie, the total number of cases).35 The Spanish flu of 1918 is reported as causing 50 million deaths in 500 million individuals infected (10% case-fatality rate), while the Hong Kong flu of 1968-1969 caused 33 000 deaths among 50 million infected (<0.1% case-fatality rate).36 The case-fatality rate of avian influenza A(H5N1) was initially reported to be as high as 60% but is more likely in the range of 14% to 33%.28

1] this novel h1n1 virus is similar to 1918 in that it effects younger healthier poplulations. Typical seasonal flu effects the very young and the very old disproportionately.

2] It is hard to determine the case fatality rate but if the seasonal cfr is half a percent and for H1n1 it is one percent; though half a percent is a small absolute amount, that difference is equal to 5000 extra deaths per million infected.


G&P