[Clough]

So, it didn't cost him any money, loss of reputation, time spent on more worthwhile endeavors, etc. to realize that, the way that he looked was just fine?

Thanks!

[EggoMini]

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin... many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and décolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?

[EggoMini]

& Not fair, freckles are cute!

... Being calico-tortoiseshell is another story entirely. Lol!

[artlady]

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin ...many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and decolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the be-all end all of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely why not?

I totally get what you are saying,please don't get me wrong.

I am not speaking of you specifically but I do believe there is some point where we have to have self acceptance .

This is who I am and I am fine!

Looks are superficial and that is a lame way to go.

I know we all want to look good but.. what length are we willing to go to achieve that aim?

[Golden_Boy]

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?[/B]

Exactly, Eggo!

Many of the "answers" in Skin Lightening are reminders "I will never understand why you dont want to be YOU!"... Made me wonder if this person ever wears makeups, colors hair, uses anti-aging products, ever used fake bake or self tanners, everrrrr.

:D

[artlady]

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin ...many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and decolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?

Let me get this straight,no groovy self acceptance thing going on,
Why can't you just not use anything and have your normal skin color?

[EggoMini]

I totally get what you are saying,please don't get me wrong.

I am not speaking of you specifically but I do believe there is some point where we have to have self acceptance .

This is who I am and I am fine!

Looks are superficial and that is a lame way to go.

I know we all want to look good but ..what length are we willing to go to achieve that aim?

Oh, until the hydroquinone pickles my brain? :p J/k

How far? Well, I'm done when I'm relatively even. The sunscreen is for life, as it should be for everyone.<casts meaningful look around the room>

Oh well, my husband (he's Euro & very melanin-challenged) doesn't listen about that either.

Glycolic peels are safe AFAIK.. they keep you smooth and yummy so that's a keeper but less frequently.

My aesthetican said that 3-6 months is the max rec. for HQ (at 4%), so I'll drop that part Februaryish whether I'm monchromo or not.

That's what I don't understand about some of the threads here and at other sites ~ How people plan to bleach their entire bodies for years? It seems beyond toxic and even if it could be done safely, exhausting.

Also the high % HQ creams I've read about make my eyes burn just thinking about. I don't if it's online bravado or creative storytelling but the tales of long-term use of super strong blends worries me.

Your consciousness can always evolve but if you've damaged your vehicle irreparably, well that just sux tragically.

[EggoMini]

Let me get this straight,no groovy self acceptance thing going on,
Why can't you just not use anything and have your normal skin color?

Impatience and vanity?:D I have an event in Dec.

Yes, I could only use sunscreen and a loofah or scratchy gloves (am I allowed to exfoliate intentionally in this scenario?) and eventually snap back but that would take forever.

I could also do say... lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, olive oil & papaya soap too. That would help it along but still much more s-l-o-w-l-y than with my dear peels & potions.. . and I'd reek like a salad in the process.

After my first real east coast winter at college, a friend from home asked... no.. more like delicately accused me of lightening myself... nope. I didn't see the sun for months!

[EggoMini]

Exactly, Eggo!

Many of the "answers" in Skin Lightening are reminders "I will never understand why you dont want to be YOU!".... Made me wonder if this person ever wears makeups, colors hair, uses anti-aging products, ever used fake bake or self tanners, everrrrr.

:D

I know.. I stopped straightening my hair years ago but I still use a mountain of different conditioners, aloe gels, spritzes, even my own concoctions etc. to maintain my 'natural' hair.

I have a couple of discreet(easily hidden with clothing) tattoos and few extra holes in my head too... so it's hard for me to say where someone else should draw the line.. . garsh, if I were named the Empress of Earth, honestly I probably would make it a rule that people should make the best of their given skin coloring.. . Sort of polish it up, rock it and live life.

There's always fashion to drive us nuts.

That proclamation would also come from experience and having to do a clean up job when I should have taken better care of myself. My aesthetician told me what to do and what not to do but I didn't listen.

OTOH

Every time I read one of those 'mono' posts I hope that it's a lie or prank because that entire depig idea is terrifying and sad to me.:(

Beyond the racist/colonial echoes around bleaching... I've been trying to look at lightening thing in a body modification context. One person's modification might be considered a type of mutilation by someone else?

Can you tell I'm reeeeeeally trying to get my brain around this?lol.:D

I don't want to harshy judge people who I assume are already stressed about feeling too dark.

Eta: On yet another hand, I don't want to enable or imply that I agree with the negative color assessments either.

I'm also flashing on body dysmorphia. Hmm I don't know, I'm so out of my depth. Maybe I'll just stick with talking about melasma & peels for now.
****

I'm rambling and I apologize for OTing your thread GB. To answer directly, I think some of the lightening products are ridiculously priced because the companies play on people's desperation and/or impatience.

Umm, that would be me and F & F... the impatience

[Golden_Boy]

if I were named the Empress of Earth, honestly I probably would make it a rule that people should make the best of their given skin coloring. ...Sort of polish it up, rock it and live life.

OTOH

Everytime I read one of those 'mono' posts I hope that it's a lie or prank because that entire depig idea is terrifying and sad to me.:(

Beyond the racist/colonial echoes around bleaching.... I've been trying to look at lightening thing in a body modification context. One person's modification might be considered a type of mutilation by someone else?

Can you tell I'm reeeeeeally trying to get my brain around this?lol.:D

I don't want to harshy judge people who I assume are already stressed about feeling too dark.

eta: On yet another hand, I don't want to enable or imply that I agree with the negative color assessments either.

I'm also flashing on body dysmorphia. hmm I don't know, I'm so out of my depth. Maybe I'll just stick with talking about melasma & peels for now.
****

I'm rambling and I apologize for OTing your thread GB. To answer directly, I think some of the lightening products are ridiculously priced because the companies play on people's desperation and/or impatience.

umm, that would be me and F & F...the impatience

I loved this read -- I would love to be part of your Earth Empire!

On the area of "depig" I think people are under the false impression that term implies total vitiligo stripping of color like with mono. Actually if one googles "depigmenting agents" it's clear the dermatological profession uses that term to refer to all skin lightening items even the mild ones like licorice, bearberry, collectively:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1068091-overview

To me, anyone impying that AMHD having a Skin Lightening category under Health & Wellness sheds a dim light on darker skins just doesn't see the light.

I wondered why there's no comparable cat for tanning since its pretty obvious that more Americans and Europeans TAN than LIGHTEN; the reason must be tanning is the cancerous option and just as well, tanning whether intentional or inadvertent chronic actinic damage, often results in the desire to lighten up darkened area whether they be small dark solar lentiges on the face, neck, chest, hand etc, or large darkened areas on the face, neck, chest, hands, etc :)

Well it remains a fact, millions more people are tanning than "lightening" yet no one tells/asks those tanners (paraphrasing) "Why can't you just love the skin you're in?"
I do agree with the reminder but not with the casting of judgment implied with that tone when used in context of an answer to a question about the nature of skin lightening products, nor the lack of reciprocity with tanning, esp when one considers most skin lightening endeavors are to some extent a wellness response following somewhat repentant excess sun exposure in one's youth.

Since you mentioned Fair & Flawless prices, yes the starter kit is $180 yes perhaps harsh skin lightening critics are are onto something - since skin lightening is highly elective, like most any non-surgical cosmetic mod, these companies likely see the opportunity to prey on desperation and so especially the overpriced ones are more bold-faced about being most concerned with lightening up our wallets.

[lilgreg1]

Skin lightening products are all about business. Most are generally compounds of various ingredients, only a portion of which may be scientifically proven, while the rest are all myth-based, or simply natural ingredients added to raise the product's 'naturality' level.

On top of that, they provide unpredictable results, don't work for everyone, nor are they FDA approved. Price and demand also plays a role; it's rare that you see any commercial brand lightener sold for less than $30, therefore the price plateau's as such.

[EggoMini]

I loved this read -- I would love to be part of ur Earth Empire!

On the area of "depig" I think people are under the false impression that term implies total vitiligo stripping of color like with mono. Actually if one googles "depigmenting agents" it's clear the dermatological profession uses that term to refer to all skin lightening items even the mild ones like licorice, bearberry, collectively:
Skin Lightening and Depigmenting Agents: eMedicine Dermatology

To me, anyone impying that AMHD having a Skin Lightening category under Health & Wellness sheds a dim light on darker skins just doesn't see the light.

I wondered why there's no comparable cat for tanning since its pretty obvious that more Americans and Europeans TAN than LIGHTEN; the reason must be tanning is the cancerous option and just as well, tanning whether intentional or inadvertent chronic actinic damage, often results in the desire to lighten up darkened area whether they be small dark solar lentiges on the face, neck, chest, hand etc, or large darkened areas on the face, neck, chest, hands, etc :)

Well it remains a fact, millions more people are tanning than "lightening" yet no one tells/asks those tanners (paraphrasing) "Why can't you just love the skin you're in?"
I do agree with the reminder but not with the casting of judgment implied with that tone when used in context of an answer to a question about the nature skin lightening products, nor the lack of reciprocity with tanning, esp when one considers most skin lightening endeavors are to some extent a wellness response following somewhat repentant excess sun exposure in one's youth.

Since you mentioned Fair & Flawless prices, yes the starter kit is $180 yes perhaps harsh skin lightening critics are are onto something - since skin lightening is highly elective, like most any non-surgical cosmetic mod, these companies likely see the opportunity to prey on desperation and so especially the overpriced ones are more bold-faced about being most concerned with lightening up our wallets.

LOL! About my Emipre.:D

Ok, thanks for explaining GB... I thought that 'depig' only meant the vitiligo treatment that must not be named. Lol Seriously though.. one of my teachers had and a cousin has vitiligo and I can't even imagine what that's like. It's great that there's a treatment to finish what the body starts but I cannot fathom intentionally putting one's self in that state.:(

Re:suntans

ITA, in my experience tanning/sun damage is much more widespread, esp where I'm from. Everyone needs to use a good sunscreen, period.

When I was younger, sunning laying out was part of socializing and relaxing... also a cheap way to change my look the sun is almost always available. It's the path of least resistance, esp in CA. lol

It became a cycle because the tans faded, the patchiness returned (often worse because the dark bits only get darker and it's evident when the new tan has faded... Not sure if it makes sense but there's:

Permatan: usually on forearms, hands, back of neck, facial areas but it depends on clothing and exposure patterns

Fresh tan: can temporarily give a glow and more even appearance but fades

Natural base color: areas never-to-rarely exposed


And it's back for another hit of sun. I even considered going to salons but honestly feared that I'd be laughed at for already being 'black' enough. Soon after I actually met an African American girl who used tanning beds to even her skin and get a glow. That was my 'green light'.

As you know GB, My eye is very much trained to a darker look. Remember the photo I posted of Sanaa Lathan and Gabrielle Union? Lol. If I could wiggle my nose and magically change to one,



I'd pick G.U. (though I suspect that she too tans to her sexy perfection.. lol)

... it's the same when I look at Destiny's Child photos (or any group of people)... my gut response is that I'd rather be Kelly's color than Michelles (closer to mine) or Beyonces.

I'm working on this. I don't want to blame my mom but I will.:p LOL! She's lighter than I am and has always gushed over and admired very dark skinned people. My darker-skinned dad(RIP) never commented about anyone's color either way. He would lay out in the sun because he thought it was healthy and undoubtedly for the great feeling. He was very into alternative medicine/health, spirituality/metaphysics, consciousness/self-help etc.

So somewhere he read that extra sun exposure is actually good for you. (Vit D, recharging esp for darker-skinned people, help the auric field.. all sorts of claims)

Even after one of his surgeries (he had health problems totally unrelated to sun & skin issues) he felt that laying out would help him heal faster! My mom almost had a heart attack @ him stretched out on the deck, stitches to the sun.

Anyway, I guess I had the Bizarro World version of what I'm learning many POC(people of color) go through. So I grew up thinking that being super dark was sort of special (thanks again mom!) and that looking like my mother or myself was boring & unremarkable.

***
I really think that humans are almost always doing something to alter our basic packages. Dental braces, hair and cosmetics, fashion, exercise, plastic surgery, piercings, and so on.

You'd have to be made of steel to not indulge or tinker on some level.

Also, BTW there are many European and American whites using the same products I'm using to dissolve & fade their permatanned areas too. A lot of people are waking up about tanning for aesthetic and health reasons.

I hope the future trend will be to sort of 'optimize' your basic look. So in my mind, that would cut down on dangerous levels of both bleaching and tanning.

[EggoMini]

Skin lightening products are all about business. Most are generally compounds of various ingredients, only a portion of which may be scientifically proven, while the rest are all myth-based, or simply natural ingredients added to raise the product's 'naturality' level.

On top of that, they provide unpredictable results, don't work for everyone, nor are they FDA approved. Price and demand also plays a role; it's rare that you see any commercial brand lightener sold for less than $30, therefore the price plateau's as such.

Yes, all about money. Just like cosmetics, 'cosmecuticals', and pharma companies.

Le sigh.

[EggoMini]

for the over 18 & of somewhat sound mind:


To circle back to what I posted last night.. IME, glycolic peels (at a spa if you're unfamiliar with them) make a huge difference in the look and feel of one's skin!

If you're slathering pricey brighteners (or moisturizers) on top of too many dead skin cells then it is wasteful and less effective... more costly.

Caveat: I'm not sure that this works for full-body lightening projects or not. Just the thought of head-to-toe glycolic makes me itchy and dizzy!

Also maybe do some soul-searching about exactly why you want to make such a change? In what ways are you expecting your looks & your life to improve? Learn about possible health risks associated with what you're using or thinking of using.. See a dermatologist/aesthetician/psychiatrist for an assessment and advice.

... IME, exfoliation (w/glycolic, loofah, mitts) is great. It helps to get a nice glow on it's own(sans lighteners) whatever color (or colors) you are.

And sunscreen sunscreen sunscreen!

[EXCLUSIVE25]

are you using any peels or retin-a..something to really exfoliate & prepare the skin for the skin (& yes wallet)-lightening products?

I honestly don't think the f&f and othine would be working nearly as well if i didn't use the glycolic peels regularly. Peeling was a key part of the spa's treatment too.

*peeling
*hq/kojic or bleaching agent of choice
*sunscreen

it's synergistic. This system is definitely working on my tanned parts & melasma..i'm not sure if it's the answer for all-over lightening.

I just ordered 50% glycolic for my outer arms, back of hands, tops of feet that are resistant & laughing at the 35%. The 35% is working fine for my face and neck. My skin feels great and i'm sure it allowed the lighteners to sink in, bringing my face and neck closer to the color of my decolletage & torso.

I've quit the hq & sepi on my face for now so that my arms and hands can catch up

flash


no flash


i'm so thankful that i haven't exposed my legs to sun in a while so i'll only have to tackle my knees (with tca 20%) and tops of feet. Hopefully the 50% gly will break up the perma-tan crud and let the hq & sepi do their thing.

They're very big on hq and retin-a regimens over on skincaretalk.com's lightening forum. I'm going to try it on my darker areas to see if it speeds the process. I'm too nervous to use it on my face also as i mentioned before, my face is light enough for now.

Keep in mind that we didn't get scorched overnight, so patience is key. Over there(sct) they're rec'ing 6 months(?) of hq & ra for lightening. I've only been at this since the beginning of august and i do see a difference.

Again make sure you're doing something to peel away the old cells and get the most from your pricey (okay maybe not othine and nadinola) potions. Hth!

Your skin look really nice,what soap are you using

[EggoMini]

Thank you! I've been rotating Likas Papaya Soap, Dove Sensitive Unscented, and Fair & Flawless cleansing scrub.

I just noticed that Dove makes an exfoliating version too. I'm going to try it.

Dove Moisturizing Lotion Gentle Exfoliating Beauty Bar Soap - 4.2 Oz, 2 Pack Buy Online

[Golden_Girl]

Eggo, I like your after pic, you are quite light and it has an over-all evening too!

[EggoMini]

GG actually those were taken one after the other! Lol.. For some reason, turning off the flash is making me look light. I took them both during the daytime... indoors... same sitting.

Weird.

IRL, I'm somewhere between the two photos.

[Golden_Girl]

Well, the photo looks very natural, I'm hoping to achieve that by December... fingers crossed.

[lilgreg1]

Great sunglasses, I should get myself a pair. ;)