[valinors_sorrow]

Like the Cat, I think its influenced by how the relationship ends. There are a variety of ways and reasons they do. More and more I tend to see relationships end without both parties having a clear understanding of why. I think that is not only sad but it definitely buys more hurt and a greater opportunity to carry baggage into the next one. I can tell you that not knowing rarely happened in my circles. It would have been considered the height of bad manners and whoever left someone like that would have been written off as hazardous, truly. If it was deep enough to define as a relationship, then it warranted discussions that allowed both people a chance to straighten it out or at least come to the mutual understanding that it was irreconcilable. If it wasn't a relationship it was dating, albeit exclusive dating but still not a relationship and that had different "rules". I think the lines between dating and relationship have been very blurred and with measurably poor results. I believe that now people "serial relationship" in the place of dating, leaving out a very crucial step-- all part of the "I want it all now" mentality pervasive in the culture.

I have been both the leaver and the leavee and remained loving whoever I loved but then again I had already learned from my crazy family of origin how to leave someone you love. I had only one relationship where he left me and I didn't understand why. I asked him many times and got a variety of what felt like bs answers. The confusion/pain this caused squashed my ability to feel all the love for a while but I still loved him. For my love to grow afterwards would not have been possible -- I felt genuinely ripped off. But I did "want" more and it would have been easy to see that as love growing. Hellspells, I DID want more-- either him or a damn good explanation! Funny thing is I am certain I now know why and feel both love for him and profound sadness that he couldn't tell me. He was gay and I realised it watching Brokeback Mountain ending almost thirty years of wondering in one stunning moment recently. I cried too.

I think when love grows like Geoff describes it is a self imposed martyring to validate the love from one side only or a rewrite of what happened verging on denial out of an attempt to hang onto the person who they see as synonymous with love or as the only source of love they've ever known or will know. Once the truth of all that is realised (that the love was truly valid and there are many sources indeed) I would guess the artificially inflated love shrinks a bit. I see both men and women do this and it usually indicates to me that there needs to be more of a whole person in the mix so they aren't so easily swayed by love... which is why its wise to work on self and its advised so often behind a break up.

I still maintain that if you are using the L word on each other, you better be pretty transparent (read honest) to each other by then and with that should come some major understanding. If not, then what are you doing using that word? And those who leave without explaining don't know the real meaning of love. It is what makes no room for fear.

And there is my $2.50 worth LOL :eek: Sorry this is so long but it's a big (and worthy) topic - thanks Geoff! I hope it was worth reading.

[Geoffersonairplane]

And there is my $2.50 worth LOL :eek: Sorry this is so long but its a big (and worthy) topic - thanks Geoff! I hope it was worth reading.

Hi Val, I enjoy reading everything that is posted on this website by everyone especially yourself as everything you say is profound and I can tell that you must have lived a life and been through quite a lot to have such a clear understanding of many things.

If I were completely honest with myself, I don't think my ex was sure what real love was.. I believe she cared for me deeply as a person and I think she was guilty about what she did but the very fact that she did it before hurting me anymore by staying in the relationship showed that she did care. At least I think that is true. Like you say Val, when a relationship ends and you feel that the reasons are not clear, it can create a lot of emotional baggage and make it harder to move on.

The way I justify the ending of my relationship with my ex was that she was too young and wanted to be single and do the single thing and was just not ready... One part of me says, Yes, this is a logical reason. Another part of me says to myself, but would you do that to someone you loved. The point is though, we are not talking about me but her and what she would do and her motivations for doing it.. So my conclusion is>>? Yes, if I were her, at her age in life, I would probably have done the same.

I see that now.. If you care for someone, and don't want to be with them, then it is fairer to that person if you leave. Maybe one day she may realise in years to come that she did love me... That is not to say I will be waiting because I know that this is an extremely unrealistic approach.

My question here is, can you be in love with someone but not know it, simply because you have not experienced love on that level before?

My instinct tells me that this is not the case but then, I regard myself as a small fish in the pond of love. She was my first serious relationship I would regard as strong enough to feel the way I do.

Sorry for banging on again...

[Geoffersonairplane]

Geoff,

Everytime I read your post or responses, I am more than impressed and touched by your depth and ability to express yourself. I promise you the pain will subside and when you meet the one who is deserving of you, you will look back on this difficult time and be grateful and more than proud of the person you have become.

Until that time, just know you are not alone, we all have been there, some of us still there,
but I am more than confident that there is great happiness that lies ahead for you.

Be good to yourself.

Thanks Allheart,

I really appreciate these comments.. Everything I say is from the heart!

[Allheart]

Geoff,

Can you see me smiling allll the way over here in the good ole USA?? I just know you are going to be okay, especially for remaining true to yourself, and always speaking from the heart. Your honesty and openness just proves what a good person you are.

You never know what tomorrow will bring. She is young and has put you through many changes. Perhaps there will be a day when she is ready or realizes what she has given up.
In the meantime, just take each day as it comes, work through the difficulties as best you can. You already are doing such a great job!!

[talaniman]

My question here is, can you be in love with someone but not know it, simply because you have not experienced love on that level before?

Yes, Our actions and reactions are pretty much based on our experiences, instincts and fears and how we deal with them. You can love Ice cream but if you were afraid your teeth would fall out, would never know how good it tastes. The same with love ,if your afraid to be hurt you will never know how good it feels.

Now figure this, now you know how good love feels then you will recognise that feeling again and from experience you will know better how to deal with it. You won't move so fast because you don't want to ruin it, and to be sure you will be more cautious because you don't want it to hurt you again.

Consider yourself experienced and after the healing you'll be much more able to recognise your next love and deal with it on a new level, a better level than before.

There are no guarantees, but you will be stronger so you will take chances and instead of being shocked and devastated you'll know what to do about it and you will know what to do if it starts looking kind of good too.

Hope I answered your question, even if I'm not as profound as Val, who is great and dead on true.

[Geoffersonairplane]

Hope i answered your question, even if I'm not as profound as Val, who is great and dead on true.

Hey Tal,

Believe me, I have taken what you, Wildcat, Val, Skell and Chuff told me seriously...

You have all including others (not mentioned above) contributed towards conditioning my way of thinking towards a more healthy recovery.

Had I not discovered this website, I know exactly what state I would have been in...

That is not to say that coming here has helped me on it's own but it certainly HAS pointed me in a direction I don't think I would be facing had I decided to go this alone...

I cannot say this enough but I really appreciate the support I have got on here...

It is comforting to know that there are people out there who care and are willing to listen..

And I will be here too in time to come for anyone who needs advice and support!

[BlazingCold]

Hey Tal,

Believe me, I have taken what you, Wildcat, Val, Skell and Chuff told me seriously...

You have all including others (not mentioned above) contributed towards conditioning my way of thinking towards a more healthy recovery.

Had I not discovered this website, I know exactly what state I would have been in......

That is not to say that coming here has helped me on it's own but it certainly HAS pointed me in a direction I don't think I would be facing had I decided to go this alone....

I cannot say this enough but I really appreciate the support I have got on here...

It is comforting to know that there are people out there who care and are willing to listen..

And I will be here too in time to come for anyone who needs advice and support!!

I feel the same way as Geoff does, but he said it better than I ever could.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel, now. Without this site, and the caring advice of several very special people here. I shudder to think where I would be right now.

To answer the question: I sure hope it does. If I ever see my ex again, I'd like to show her how much I've grown, and how losing her wasn't the end of my world, but the start of a brand new outlook on life.

[Skell]

Wow, this is a great thread.

I have to say that reading both Val and Tal's posts were inspirational. Id heard a little from Val before but never Tal and I have to say reading it Tal was so great for me. I felt like sh1t this morning coming into the office and a litle sorry for myself, so to read that was just the tonic I needed to give myself another little kick and the rear to continue moving forward.

Thank you so much the two of you for sharing that. You probably don't realise it but I am sure others like me muster great hope and draw strength form the fact that you too have been where we are now but have grown into such magnificent people who help others so wonderfully.

Sorry, little mushy but I really enjoyed reading both posts a lot!

[Skell]

To answer the question: I sure hope it does. If I ever see my ex again, I'd like to show her how much I've grown, and how losing her wasn't the end of my world, but the start of a brand new outlook on life.

I understand what you are saying Blaze. It is like you want to validate everything and show that you won in a way. That you are now a great person and someone she should have stayed with.

Well don't think like that. The only person you have to prove yourself to and show how much you have grown is yourself. You and you only. As it you and you only who really knows if you have truly grown or not!

So don't do anything with her in your mind. Do it with you in your mind!

[Geoffersonairplane]

I understand what you are saying Blaze. It is like you want to validate everything and show that you won in a way. that you are now a great person and someone she should have stayed with.

Well dont think like that. The only person you have to prove yourself to and show how much you have grown is yourself. You and you only. As it you and you only who really knows if you have truly grown or not!

So dont do anything with her in your mind. Do it with you in your mind!

I totally agree with this Skell, it is probably more painful to go through this process with an ulterior motive of trying to prove to your ex that you can live without them. This is in some ways a negative way of overcoming the loss because you would always be thinking that by trying to prove something to your ex, you can possibly try and win them back. I don't believe in the long run, this would be realistic and healthy. I would like to say otherwise and wish what you say is true Blaze but the truth is that it probably won't work out that way... but then it may do... but you should not improve yourself with this in mind because if it is going to happen it will... Besides, how would you let her know? My ex would not want me contacting her and even if I did I would actually be proving that I need to let her know and therefore cannot be without her..

It's a win/win situation if you choose to let go...

Hard as hell to do it, I know.

[K_3]

When someone dumps another, it does not always mean they never loved you. Whatever they expected did not happen. That is not always the dumpee's fault. In this situation, I think she needed to experience more in her life before settling down. She does not know what she wants at that age, so how could you fulfill it? Your love for her was a more mature love, you will take longer to get over it. She, on the other hand was ready to leave so she had grieved already. There is a certain amount of time to feel sad, being different for everyone. Life is a wonderful journey. Take the chapters you had with her, there will always be a place in your heart for the memorys. Continue on with your journey. There is so much for one to do in life and people to meet, love to be shared. Know what you are learning now is a lesson to help you get where you are to be. We don't know what our live has in store for us, there is always good ahead. Some more bumps in the road but good times ahead. Do not get stuck in the sharp curves and steep hills of life. Keep moving forward with anticipation. You have grieved, you have grown and you are seeing yourself more clearly. Had you stayed where you were, you may never have grown for what is to come. Do not waste time and energy trying to analyze anothers reasons for doing something. They may not know so how can you know.
You have lots of support and you are clearly growing, do not worry about being the dumpee. Are you really still missing her, or are you missing what you had? Do not live in the past... we do not know the future, but I will bet a few years down the road you will be saying thank you for her leaving you. If she comes back, you will be in a better place, both of you will have found yourselves and that will make for a better relationship.

[Geoffersonairplane]

Thanks K_3,

Without sounding too mushy, what you have said here really touched me inside..

Life is a wonderful journey. Take the chapters you had with her, there will always be a place in your heart for the memorys. Continue on with your journey. There is so much for one to do in life and people to meet, love to be shared. Know what you are learning now is a lesson to help you get where you are to be. We don't know what our live has in store for us, there is always good ahead. Some more bumps in the road but good times ahead. Do not get stuck in the sharp curves and steep hills of life. Keep moving forward with anticipation.

This was just brilliant, I can really take a lot from all this..

Thanks again..

[Geoffersonairplane]

Are you really still missing her, or are you missing what you had? Do not live in the past...

I just realised there is a question here.

It feels like I miss her and the person she was, things about her, not just talking on a physical level but more importantly on a mental and even spiritual level. Also though I do miss what we had so I would say it is really a bit of both.

I won't foolishly portray the relationship as being perfect because I don't believe in the perfect relationship.

In time things may seem different and I may view all this in a different way.