[sndbay]

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

ClassyT, I hope these verses will aid in our discussion


2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

"NOW"

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

[arcura]

sndbay,
Didn't Jesus say that we should go by the spirit of THE LAW and not the letter?
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay,
Didn't Jesus say that we should go by the spirit of THE LAW and not the letter?
Fred

I trust this is what you mean Fred

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Gal 3:10-11-12 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

[arcura]

sndbay,
Very much so.
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay,
Very much so.
Fred

Then let's go back to your question Quote:

sndbay,
Didn't Jesus say that we should go by the spirit of THE LAW and not the letter?
Fred

Actually scripture says go by the spirit of liberty and not the old letter. As I have posted the scriptures that says cursed is everyone that does not continue in the law (Gal 3:10-11-12). By doing as the law has taught us, and as Christ puts in our hearts, we are walking in HIS footsteps. We surrender our will to do the will of The Father .

Let's take what ClassyT has said

Snd,
I'm confused as to what you are saying. Are you saying that you no longer sin? I will agree that our new nature, the one that is conformed to the image of Christ CANNOT sin....unfortunately we live with the OLD nature too. While I try to die daily to it...the OLD man rears its ugly head from time to time. If we say we have no sin...we decieve ourselves!

We were in bondage to sin, and were servants of sin before the blood of Christ was shed. Now we have been brought and have been given the law of liberty, to serve as servants of righteousness. If we take our liberty to walk in the spirit, there is nothing bad said concerning those which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in them, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

If we take liberty to walk after the flesh we are (cursed) = (reap what we sow). We put ourselves in bondage to sin. Just like being in bondage to a credit card when you use it. Beguiled by satan like Eve was in the garden. God promised not to curse them as He once did to Adam. Instead through experience of reaping what they had sown, they gain profitable knowledge by the help and hand of God. Everything that satan attempts is overcome by Christ, and HIS grace in forgiveness. (if they repent as done in daily praying of Our Father's Prayer that Christ taught us to pray)

We stand in jeopardy evey hour of every day, but we can rejoice in Christ Jesus by oath. To stand against satan, and his attempt to beguile us. And yes to die (flesh dies to walk in the spirit) daily, and to carry our cross is not easy. We are asked to be diligent that we may be found of Christ in peace, without spot, and blameless.

When we are begotten again we are adopted as a child of God, held to obedience and righteousness of God to walk in the spirit, and not the flesh.

Spirit of Adoption
Romans 8:11-14 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Peter 1:3-4-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved(attend to carefully) in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[arcura]

sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.
Some do walk in the spirit of God but billions do not, most of them have never become familiar with Jesus and many have never heard of Him.
That's the way the world is now.
Please pray that many more people are converted to Christianity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.
Some do walk in the spirit of God but billions do not, most of them have never become familiar with Jesus and many have never heard of Him.
That's the way the world is now.
Please pray that many more people are converted to Christianity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

I believe in One Faith One Lord One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. God's will be done in HIS spiritual power to arouse and invigorate the spirit.

[sndbay]

sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.
Fred

Disagree..
Not according to scripture Fred. When the flesh body does end life here on earth, it will return (decomposing)to the dust of the earth. And the spirit returns to God. That silver cord that has the flesh connect to the spirit is loosen immediately.


Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

From there your spirit remain on one side of the great gulf or the other fixed until judgement day. Just as scripture speaks of in (Luke 16:26)

[arcura]

sndbay,
OF COURSE the spirit returns to God, but our flesh is in the grave.
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay,
OF COURSE the spirit returns to God, but our flesh is in the grave.
Fred

The statement you made is Quoted that we are all in the flesh even if it is in the grave. Not True, we are not out their in a hold in the ground. The spiritual body houses our inner self (the soul) and we are returned to God.

sndbay,
We are all sinners and we are all in the flesh even if it is decomposing in a grave.

Fred

Do you think the earthly body does not perish into dust to return to the earth where it came? Even the ending trumpet examples how we are change permanently. (spiritual bodies brought forth leaving the natural earthly flesh)
REFER:
1 Corinthinas 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Scripture is telling us the dead shall be raised incorruptible (this dead is us, divided from or changed from the flesh to remain in a spiritual body) The only way we are incorruptible is in the spirit (changed). The flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Cr 15:15) That means the flesh can not be incorruptible. The flesh body returns to dust.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

We were born with a earthly image of the flesh but we will only bear the second body known as the image of heaven. (righteousness in the spirit)

BODY + SPIRIT + SOUL (Baptized the conscience mind is buried in Christ = dead)

This is why we are told, while we are here on earth, diligently work at walking and having the spiritual body in control. Let your spiritual body control your actions to show righteousness. For the flesh body can not please God.

[arcura]

sndbay,
Sorry about that.
It's sad that you did not get what I meant.
Our flesh is in the grave but our spirit not.
Fred

[JoeT777]

BODY + SPIRIT + SOUL (Baptized the conscience mind is buried in Christ = dead)

Are you adding to God’s creation? I don’t understand, “man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body.” (Augustine, City of God, 19, 3). I don’t see a ghost in this formula, do you? Man is both body and soul.

St. Thomas Aquinas views the soul as follows:

• The rational soul, which is one with the sensitive and vegetative principle, is the form of the body. This was defined as of faith by the Council of Vienne of 1311;
• the soul is a substance, but an incomplete substance, i.e. it has a natural aptitude and exigency for existence in the body, in conjunction with which it makes up the substantial unity of human nature ;
• Though connaturally related to the body, it is itself absolutely simple, i.e. of an unextended and spiritual nature. It is not wholly immersed in matter, its higher operations being intrinsically independent of the organism;
• the rational soul is produced by special creation …
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Soul

Where in Genesis did God breathe soul AND SPIRIT into material man? “And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.” (Gen 2:7). Ecclesiastes 12:17 refers to man’s death as the body returning to dust and the spirit returns to God. What is to happen to the ‘ghost’ part of man?

Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly", with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lord's coming. (Cf. 1 Th 5:23) The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. (Council of Constantinople IV (870): DS 657) "Spirit" signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God. (Cf. Vatican Council I, Dei Filius: DS 3005; GS 22 # 5; Humani generis: DS 3891.) (CCC 367) Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

When Paul uses body, soul and spirit as in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 he is referring to the matter that man is and the soul that animates man. ‘Soul and Spirit’ is referring to the entire or whole of man; like the idiom, ‘part and parcel’ which refers to the unequivocal essential part.

The doctrine of trichotomy is characteristic of the Gnostics who divided man into three parts, spirit, animal, and earthy. The doctrine sets up a dichotomy whereby earthly perfection is a perfect spirit, and consequently lives eternally. Such a view denies the immortality of the soul as an inherent characteristic.

JoeT

[arcura]

JoeT777,
Thanks for posting that.
It IS very interesting and though provoking.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[adam7gur]

Are you adding to God’s creation? I don’t understand, “man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body.” (Augustine, City of God, 19, 3). I don’t see a ghost in this formula, do you? Man is both body and soul.

Joe
If you don't see a spirit or a ghost in the formula, I will try to help you!
Spirit, Soul, And Body - Article - Andrew Wommack Ministries
Watchman Nee:Spiritual Man Volume 1.
Watchman Nee on the Tripartite Man
defining spirit, soul, and body

[sndbay]

Joe
If you don't see a spirit or a ghost in the formula, I will try to help you!
Spirit, Soul, And Body - Article - Andrew Wommack Ministries
Watchman Nee:Spiritual Man Volume 1.
Watchman Nee on the Tripartite Man
defining spirit, soul, and body

Thank you Adam

Are you adding to God’s creation? I don’t understand, “man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body.”
JoeT

I trust what the word of God says, and perhaps a seed from the Word can offer an awareness of the body + spirit + soul.

Not only does (1 Thess 5:23 ) speak of the awareness to flesh body, spirit body, and living soul, but we have scripture that tells us we do have the two bodies. From the beginning the flesh natural flesh body was given the living soul, but we are born again or begotten again with the spiritual body that is the quickening spirit.

1 Corinthains 15:44-45 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The reality of what Christ did for us on the cross is far greater then what man seems to realizes. And the reality of what baptism NOW does from what was, is also far greater then what man seems to realizes. Understand that what was not first spiritual, but was natural, became afterward spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (1 Cr 15:46-47)

Proof of what some men think
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?

Answer
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


One Baptism:Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (Also: Romans 6:4)

Do you see that this is possible if by ONE FAITH you believe what the Word of God has spoken, and it is the operation of God's plan for us ?

[arcura]

Thanks Adam and sndbay.
Fred

[Maggie 3]

Thank you Adam for e-mail address and thank you Sndbay for your teaching. I appreciate
You both. Maggie 3

[JoeT777]

"Spirit" denotes the soul of man, or a supernatural act of God within man, or a supernatural life of grace. “Spirit” is used in Scripture to denote the immortality of the soul. This dualism is evident in John 12:27 “Now is my soul troubled” then again in John 13:21” he was troubled in spirit” and again in Luke “My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” The intellectual part that animates man is magnified while the immortal part rejoices in the Savior, i.e. the whole of man, body and soul, is saved in a Divine grace for an eternity.

Thus, when we read Matthew 10:28 – “And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell;” we understand that the immortal soul and body suffer eternally in hell. So, if we hold to trichotomy what happens to the spirit?

If we can take idiom and turn it into theology then it seems to me we can take Christ at his word and conclude there are five parts in man, e.g. heart, soul, mind, and strength; as in Mark 12:30, “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind and with thy whole strength.”


JoeT

[arcura]

JoeT,
Points well made.
Man is made up of a trinity of bidy, mind and spirit (soul).
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

Phl 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.


Eph 3:16-17-18-19 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.