[polarbear123]

Thanks again talinan, yeah the sticky about the steps was very moving (I read it a while ago :).

I'm sure I'll be back here to vent, I'm just going to keep being true to myself and taking it one day at a time.

[jmw0713]

I day at a time is the best course of action. No reason to think about tomorrow... it ain't even here yet...

[polarbear123]

Update:

Been thinking about her a lot today and yesterday and just feeling very low. The little control I have over my thoughts is scary and frightening. I just can't stop thinking about her motives. I know asking the question, seeking the answer doesn't help anything, but my thoughts are just out of control. I keep thinking that if I know/confirm she's lying to me about her intentions (i.e. she needs to find herself and be with herself/alone/be selfish) that it'll be easier to let go. I keep thinking that if I know she's actively seeking someone else or seeing someone else (which I have an inkeling; is it related to my paranoia about the situation though, who knows) It'll make things easier. Letting go of this is just so hard. Right now that thought is hard to let go of and it is almost consuming me.

Tomorrow she comes back to work too, and the thought of seeing her again is just plain painful. It's like the calm before the storm; you know it's coming so it's almost even worse than the actual fury that results.

I appreciate everyone's empathy and suggestions here though. I really am trying my damndest to just let things go; I just feel like every time I take a step forward, I soon take one right back. Going on three months of pure confusion and I see no end to this. My hope is waning a lot over the last few days.

My goals right now:

1. abandon all hope of her and I
2. Let go of the past
3. Not dwell on things (easier said than done)
4. Be happy again for the first time in 3 months
5. Stop thinking about what went wrong - how to fix things - it's unfixable
6. Remove her from my life
7. Stop wallowing and riding the emotional rollercoaster thinking about everything

Steps:

1. I think it's finally time I seek medical help, i.e. a psychologist-therapist. I don't know what else to do. I still strongly oppose medication because of lack of research on the long term ramifications for messing with your dopamine and serotonin levels, but at least seeing someone once a month or more (although I don't know if insurance covers more than once a month).
2. Immersion in things I used to like to do. I've been forcing myself to play some video games over the last few days and although it's been miserable at times, I've at least been trying.
3. New hobbies; I'm taking up biking, running, and getting back to reading again.
4. Journaling; this one is a toughy as I've been doing it. It can help, but actually keeps the wallowing going sometimes so need to be careful here as it can be a very powerful tool but needs to be harnessed accordingly.
5. See my friends - keep up on social activities; this one's very hard as I know I've been making my friends/family miserable with my debby downer self for 3 months now, but I have to keep forcing myself to be around others.
6. Working out - playing basketball, physical exercise is huge.
7. When at work focus on work only - Stay away from her to the best of my abilities - be cordial and nice, but keep things very professional.

*Update about last night: Last night we spoke (for various reasons) and I expressed once again my problems with the situation. I know I was just circling the issue trying/hoping to be able to fix things or know that she changed her mind, but as usual things are the same. At the end of the conversation I made a commitment that we would not discuss "us" for at least a month. I know putting a timeframe on things is weird and probably not the best approach, but I hope this helps me stop contacting her (or after she contacts me) to ask WHY; as in why are things not working, what is the problem, etc. I need to stop trying to fix things and waiting for her to change her mind. I know that this cycle is occurring and that it is actually further straining any chances of us getting back together (because she's getting sick of it). And I know I shouldn't stop talking to her about "us" for her sake or because I secretly hope for us to get back together, but in this case my warped view actually winds up being the right choice I do believe. It allows both of us to step away and let the emotional dust clear. The problem that I have here is that I really don't want to be doing something for her sake/holding the secret hope of reconcillation in mind. I'm trying to stop this cycle for my own sake, or I keep telling myself that, but the back of my mind creeps in and says you are stopping "us" talks for one month (or more, that was just to show I mean business I guess at the time and that I'm serious out breaking this cycle; it was more of a show then I know, I'm just hoping it's more over time) for her to not have to think about things (as she says these talks bother her because she's trying not to think about our situation and focus on herself - she also gets upset because I bring up that I'm trying to let go and my progress toward that and that bothers her) and with the secret hope of getting back together. I'm trying to do this for me, I just feel like I'm lying to myself when I say that right now. I don't want to not ask her about "us" for her sake or because I have secret hopes but right now that seems to be why I'm doing it and I'd be lying if I said otherwise. Does that mean I shouldn't not (double negative) talk to her about us, or is it the way to go regardless of my intentions. I am trying to do this for me, just right now I'd be lying to say I am. Any help anyone, suggestions, about this issue?

Thanks for allowing me to vent again everyone.

[talaniman]

Harsh alert

It would help if you put positive actions to your words or else your just running off at the mouth, and letting your mind play tricks on you.

Sometimes it pays just to shut up, not to say your vents are not good for you. But your actions with her are about being professional, not a lovesick monkey.

You also should not be discussing anything personal, just business. The only alternative is one of you has to go!

Man up, and do as your supposed to do.

[polarbear123]

Thanks talianman for your suggestions.

Like I said in the message before, my actions are to keep things professional. The problem I have is the hope that lies; I'm worried that my actions are playing into my false hope as they are at this point directed at an ultimate goal (as I stated before). I guess what I'm asking now is, is it OK to act "professional" even if I'm not being true to myself?

I don't want to lie to myself, so I'm just plain confused.

Fake it till you make it?

Thanks again.

[talaniman]

Why would you fake being a professional?? Don't let false hope give you doubts about doing what you have to do, or allow your mind to play tricks on you.

Your ultimate goal is to heal, and get objectivity back, not get her in the sack, or have her fall for you.

[polarbear123]

Thanks again talinan.

I wouldn't necessarily "fake being a professional". I was more talking about faking my emotions while at work because on the inside I feel like a complete wreck but can't express that outwardly. It is very difficult to look her in the face and not be overrun with every emotion in the book at work of all places. Never again will I date anyone I work with, this sucks really bad. I just feel so hurt and that I can't heal because I'm stuck seeing her and being reminded by my thoughts, emotions, and feelings constantly.

[talaniman]

I do understand, and believe me, I feel for you. She doesn't have to know the turmoil your in, and that's for the best.

It will take a lot more work on your part though, to tame those feelings, but in time we do get them under control.

Its like back in school when you break up with someone you see everyday, and as back, then our interest move to other things, as we accept the end of one relationship, and move to another.

As adults we don't move as fast, or change our interests, and focus, as quickly as we did, but we do work through it. So will you.

[polarbear123]

Thanks again talianan for your comments.

Update about today:

My weekend was OK; I felt down in the dumps for the most part, but started to come through a little bit on Sunday. Then this morning hit; driving to work I knew seeing her again would bother me a little bit but I felt as though I was at least prepared enough. Then I walk in the door and she asks me how my weekend was; I say it was OK. I ask her how her's was being cordially then. Now here comes the kicker:

She goes on to tell me that her weekend was great and that yesterday she got so drunk she threw up. She was laughing and giggling telling me how she went out with her brother-in law's, sister, and her brother in law's friends on a boat. She told me she at one point was dancing on the boat and then tripped and fell off into the water. She even showed me a bruise on her knee from it. The whole time she's laughing and talking about the grand ole time she had with his guy friends, talking about some guy Nate and whatnot.

I was not prepared for this; the thought of her dancing on a boat in a bikini with a bunch of guys all drunk just completely wrecked me. Every feeling in the book just overwhelmed me; I felt unwanted, angry, upset she had SO MUCH fun, oh and super super super Jealous that she was doing this stuff with other men around. The angry and depression combo is just scary.

I don't know what to do; I feel like weeping, I feel angry and jealous as well. I just don't know how to get through these feelings right now. I feel like all my progress is ruined again and I'm back to square one.

Why would she tell me that; is she trying to hurt me? Is she really that unaware that saying that stuff would hurt me so dearly? Is this part of a game with her or something? Why? I'm confused and hurt.

[kctiger]

She got so drunk she fell off a boat... I don't know any guys that would have thought that was cool. If you ask me, I would be glad to be rid of someone who behaves like a total drunk a$$. There is NOTHING attractive about that. I remember my ex telling me stories like that and feeling totally hurt and devastated... now, I realize how lucky I am that I don't have to be the responsible one while she is aboslutely blitzed.

On the flip side, I know you hurt and I know EXACTLY what you are going through. Keep venting! Let it all out.

[jmooney527]

It also sounds like she might be getting a rise out of your reaction to her stories. Unless she's incredibly stupid, she probably knows her talking about other guys, etc hurts you. So if she does already know this, she's either doing it to dig at you or she's actually over everything. My guess is she's being spiteful. Then again I don't know her.

You will feel SO much better the day she tells you a story and you could care less what happened. If this hurts you so much, then next time she starts talking about her weekend just excuse yourself or cut the conversation short. Next time just keep the pleasantries simple and short with no details.

I know you want to be nice to her... but she's not being nice to you.

[dreamingartist]

You need a ball kick. Shapam! This girl is a moron. Sorry... anyone who gets so wasted that they fall off a boat deserves it. You sound like a nice guy and you don't need that crap. I don't want to date a girl who gets so drunk she can't control herself. I am interested in meeting someone with SOME sense of control.

The same control motives in her brain that say "hey I shouldn't cheat on my X" are the same control movies that should say "Hey i am really wasted, I should prolly cut back on drinking right now".

It just sounds like she is a game player, a flirt, and not as bright as she comes off. It sounds like she is a manipulator and an attention seeker.

And it sounds like you are stuck inside your head.

You have two choices. 1) go on being miserable or 2) grow up and get over this scumychick.

Yeah 1) is so much easier than 2) but you have to just put your foot down and eventually say enough is enough. How many months are you going to dwell on this chick before you get tired of being such a downer??

Write down a list of all the horrible things she is, and the horrible things you "THINK" she has done... I don't care if she hasn't cheated on you, if you think she has, write it down. Then the second you think about her, pull your list out and recite it.


ALSO!! Why the heck are you letting her tell you about your weekend!! Can't you say hi and then be like, hey I'd love to hear your story but I have to go to the bathroom, or I have a phone call to make, and just blow her off?? The fact that you sit there and listen to the whole story makes me even feel depressed. Goodness! Slap yourself out of it!

[talaniman]

Dude relax a minute here, and realize she is fishing for a reaction from you. Don't give her one. Busy but brief, and unavailable. Hi, and bye. Since you don't have the quick wit, and acid tongue, it takes to stop her, in her tracks.

[polarbear123]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I really can't explain how important it is in helping me get out of these emotional rollarcoasters. I'm trying so so so hard to let go of this garbage. I can't imagine anything hurting any worse than all of this nonsense I've been through the last 3 months now and I'm really at my wits end here. I'm this close to just quiting my job and moving on to something else because the emotional turmoil is just killing me.

I've been trying my damndest to avoid her when things like this come up it's just difficult because sometimes it's in a group setting during a meeting or something (not the drinking on a boat, but some other stuff) and I'm forced to sit and listen.

The other kicker is that she asks me why I'm so upset and walking around all moopy and angry. DUH! It's obvious why I'm doing that. I try as hard as I possibly can to turn my emotions off and ignore it but I can only do so much; sometimes my depression rears its ugly head in behavior; I'm hiding it the best I can it's just hard. The fact that she comes back at me like, "why you so angry lately, gese" just makes it even worse. I have no idea how to respond to that; I usually just say, oh no I'm fine, I have no idea what you're talking about, because I think she's just trying to see if I'm still all hung up on her. I don't want to give her the satisfaction of knowing that is the case either. The only thing is that in doing that I'm playing a game right back at her and not being honest. The whole thing is just confusing. I'm trying so hard to let go of her; just let go. I really want to say, I don't want to be with her and truly mean it, in my heart.

I literally just scheduled to see my doctor this week. I can't take it anymore, I need professional help at this point. I'm pretty against mental health medication, but at this point I just want to go one day without feeling like I'm completely empty and worthless on the inside.

Talinan, what do you mean by acid tougue or quick wit; how would I respond to that with wit?

[talaniman]

Stop pretending your okay, and just tell her out right your not interested in her drunk escapades and walk away, or whatever story she tells. You don't have to act like everything is okay, so don't, since its not in your make up, nor part of your style.

You have to work within yourself, to be yourself, to protect yourself.

[jmooney527]

You don't have to be TOTALLY honest with her... you don't owe that to her anymore given how you aren't dating. You were honest with her post break up and poured your heart out to her... and where did that get you?

You don't have to lie to her either. As Tal said, just be blunt with her and try to keep conversations REALLY short. She has verbal diarrhea right now and watching you squirm gives her power. Watching you react to her stories makes her feel better about herself. Don't give her that power over you.

I wouldn't suggest going on medication at all. See a therapist to talk through your stuff but try not to use medication as a crutch unless it's absolutely necessary.

And don't quit your job either unless you have some better prospects out there. If you like your job (minus the ex) then she shouldn't be a reason for you to leave. Then again, if it is too much... make sure you have something lined up before you clear your desk off.

Working with your ex is very difficult and it takes a LOT of willpower and determination to get past it.

[jmw0713]

"Hi, polar! How was your weekend?"

"Hi, blank! My weekend was GREAT! I can't talk right now. I have to catch-up on some work that needs to be finished. C-ya!"

Walk away.

OR

"Hey polar, me and my friends did this and I met this guy. He's so funny! Blah, blah, blah."

"That's nice, blank. But honestly, I don't have time to listen to all the s--- that you did the last couple of days. I have much more important things to do right now. Have a nice day!"

Walk away.

There. That's all you need to say. She needs to know that her life is SO TRIVIAL to you now. When she starts talking about crap that you don't want to hear, end the conversation on the spot, be blunt about it, and leave. She playing games and she knows it. So when she asks why you're so mad, call her out and tell her not to play dumb... she knows why. Then get back to work.

If she walks in to your office, tell you don't have time for her stupid s--- right now, you have work that you need to get done.

Every time she comes around and starts talking to you, or tries to start a conversation... YOU ARE BUSY with MORE IMPORTANT THINGS. Then WALK AWAY.

If she asks why you are avoiding her. YOU ARE BUSY with MORE IMPORTANT THINGS and WALK AWAY.

Hopefully she will get the hint.

This is not time to consider her feelings. She is not considering your's when she tells you all of this stuff. It's time to lay the smack down and put this woman back in her place.

[talaniman]

By JMW,
This is not time to consider her feelings. She is not considering your's when she tells you all of this stuff. It's time to lay the smack down and put this woman back in her place.

You are a quick witted, acid tongued devil!! Great post.

[CanIBuyAClue]

Thanks again talianan for your comments.

Update about today:

My weekend was OK; I felt down in the dumps for the most part, but started to come through a little bit on Sunday. Then this morning hit; driving to work I knew seeing her again would bother me a little bit but I felt as though I was at least prepared enough. Then I walk in the door and she asks me how my weekend was; I say it was ok. I ask her how her's was being cordially then. Now here comes the kicker:

She goes on to tell me that her weekend was great and that yesterday she got so drunk she threw up. She was laughing and giggling telling me how she went out with her brother-in law's, sister, and her brother in law's friends on a boat. She told me she at one point was dancing on the boat and then tripped and fell off into the water. She even showed me a bruise on her knee from it. The whole time she's laughing and talking about the grand ole time she had with his guy friends, talking about some guy Nate and whatnot.

I was not prepared for this; the thought of her dancing on a boat in a bikini with a bunch of guys all drunk just completely wrecked me. Every feeling in the book just overwhelmed me; I felt unwanted, angry, upset she had SO MUCH fun, oh and super super super Jealous that she was doing this stuff with other men around. The angry and depression combo is just scary.

I don't know what to do; I feel like weeping, I feel angry and jealous as well. I just don't know how to get through these feelings right now. I feel like all my progress is ruined again and I'm back to square one.

Why would she tell me that; is she trying to hurt me? Is she really that unaware that saying that stuff would hurt me so dearly? Is this part of a game with her or something? Why? I'm confused and hurt.

It is my first reaction that she is telling you these things to get a rise out of you. She wants to see how you react, and maybe make you jealous. I would say do not give her that satisfaction. And personally, I don't find anything attractive about a girl stumbling around all drunken on a boat... but that's just me. Don't let it affect you, and as others have said, I would maybe re-evaluate if that is the quality of character that you want in a girlfriend. Personally, if my girlfriend acted like that on a repeated basis, I would most assuredly end it.

[polarbear123]

You make some good points guys. I'm just emotionally exhausted at this point and trying to do my best to move on from this crazyiness.

I will say that since that happened more stuff has happened and it just makes me realize that I don't want this. I'm still in a tough place because when I see something that reminds me of her, it hurts dearly, but at least now I'm more aware of these triggers and can try my best to let the feelings come in and then come out all in one.

The other night she called me to apologize for blowing up at me at work and we got into the relationship talk again. I know she hates this talk, probbaly because it makes her feel guilty for the way she's treated me and she doesn't want to recognize that. I'm trying my best to avoid these talks as well for now too; the side of me that's avoiding it to please her though is dying. I am buildling toward avoiding these talks to allow myself to heal and because I am finally accepting that I can't talk her into wanting to be with me. No matter how I dress it up, no matter what reasoning I use, that will not change that she doesn't want to be with me.

More about that conversation too; so at one point in the conversation she says to me that she knows now that she wants her partner to be Catholic like her. Now I know that she's always preferred that, but that was never a deal breaker until the other day over the phone. That made me very angry because why did I build and pull so far with this if there was no opportunity for anything serious based on the fact that she wants her partner to be Catholic. The thing that makes me angry as well is that she in the same breath says she's not closing the door on us completely and that she still loves me and that if I was were Catholic later on (of course she says it would have to be for myself) then things may happen.
So, let me get this straight: you still have feelings for me, but I'm not Catholic so you won't be with me, oh and your not ready to be with anyone right now. Oh and she also said that she doesn't think I'm truly ready because she believes I didn't have the time to fully grieve my old relationship ending. I just don't know what to think about this crap. Anger immediately comes to mind because I put so much into something that according to her was doomed and she knew it. So why did we go through all of this if it was doomed in her mind from the start; why. It sounds like classic excuses to ease her own guilt, but I don't know. THe signs are written all over the wall, but a small part of me (getting smaller too) still believes she loves me. I guess that just stupid though, I don't know. Just writing this paragraph has made me so angry right now.

I hate to say it, but every once and a while, I wish she would have just shotgunned her way into another relationship (or at least I knew that she did, who knows if she has already, lol) so I could just be angry at her and maybe move through this faster. I know that would hurt too though ultimately and wouldn't make anything better; it's just an illusion of anger.

Also, she's next door in her office right now and looks so beautiful; It bothers me so much that I have to look at her everyday and be reminded of the way I feel for her. Same thing with hearing her voice, and all the other triggers that I associate with her. I just went in too hard too fast because of some idealized fantasy that this was true love so I put a lot of my eggs in the us basket. I created so many associations with her from music, places, magazines, clothing, jewelry, experiences, her car, her family structure, and so much more. Just so many associations. I had a trigger earlier too that I saw someone in a vehicle that looked like hers, it was a guy and I thought a girl was in the girl too and that it was her and some new guy driving around. It made me think that her and I use to do that and experience that simple pleasure together of holding eachothers hands and listening to music with the sunroof open together. The crazy array of emotions I felt at even the slightest threat that she was moving on to expeirence that with someone else, even though I clearly saw that was not her in the car, just made me realize how much farther I have to go in this.

The thought of her with someone else and experiencing all the great and amazing things we did together still completely rocks my core. I just wish I knew HOW to let go of this so that the prospect of that doesn't bring me to my knees with that crazy emotional combo of anger, sadness, doubt, and everything else. Wow, I've got a lot of healing left to do.

Makes getting over this just THAT much harder. I'll take my mom's advice next time; don't crap where you lie.

I don't know though; I think I'm making some small tiny mini progress though. Right now my two problems are:

How to act around her - I'm just trying to get out of my head on this one and just try to recognize my emotions, thoughts and feelings and go with what's best for me; right now I'm trying to just stay positive as I know short term I could be angry or moppy openly in the office but I need to be a big person here and not do that, espeically in a professional environment. I'm just trying to avoid her to a degree and keep things cordial, but also recognize my feelings and be fair to myself. I know at this point if she says something hurtful; I may fire back at her sometimes, I may just let go sometimes. We'll see on this one; there's really no right and wrong answer here I do believe other than being true to myself to the best of my ablilities in terms of trying ot heal and let go.

Stop trying to Fix things: every day it seems I get some ideas about how I could go about convincing her to want to be with me-love me, etc. errr however you want to word this one. RIght now I want to tell her that taking a chance on love can be rewarding. I want to say to her that although I may not fit her ideals as a "perfect man" for her (I.e. the Catholic crap), if she were to take a chance on love and embrace the way she says she feels about me, that although there's a chance one or both of us may get hurt, there's also a chance that we can be everything we've hoped and dreamed for. I want to say that I may just fit her "list" later (i.e. I have been to church with her and liked it so I'm pretty open to at least openly considering conversion; I won't do it unless I feel it, but hey that's a chance either way really, I do like the mass though), so why not take a chance on something you love, because otherwise your throwing away something potentially great. I want to kiss her and then say that so dearly; but I'm finally coming to grips with the fact that no matter what I say, nothing will change unless she decides to change her rigidness. I guess I just hope that the power of my convincing will help her with that; I'm trying to let go and say ot myself that I have no affect on her decisions, but that's hard to do for a number of reasons including the fact that I'd like to think that someone important to another can have an influence on their decisions; but maybe not, I guess I just have to keep coming to grips with the thought that I DON"T have a influence in this case and STOP trying to figure out WHY things didn't/don't work. The fact of the matter is that THEY DON"T; why is inconsequential. Now to put that thought into my mind and have it stick, that's a different story.

I just have to keep going along and trying to be happy and work through this so I can see her with someone else and be OK with it.

Thanks for the time to vent everyone :)

End Vent