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arcura · Mar 14, 2009, 11:11 PM

revdrgade,
You said, "At this time I would treat her as a sister who has strayed from the truth and needs to be treated as unconverted."
I think that that is a good way to look at it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

classyT · Mar 15, 2009, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

classyT,
Believe that Billy G. could say that.
There are many people who believe that Jesus is the judge of who goes where after death of the body.
I also believe the Jesus Christ, God The Son, is the Judge and He has said so.
So I am not going to try to out guess Him.
Jesus has infinite and perfect wisdom and understanding and love, and mercy.
No human being has anything even near to perfection in any of those attributes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The Lord Jesus knows every heart and I understand that.. but to suggest that there is salvation elsewhere? No way Fred. The Lord places His word above his name. Do you get that.. . I think that is HUGE. ( word above name) He isn't going to tell us one thing and then judge another way. There is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. There just is no other way. To me it seemed Billy was saying... it didn't matter as long as they adhere to moral ways and practices. Do you disagree with that?

Alty · Mar 15, 2009, 07:37 PM

Are you saying that non Christians (even if they believe in God) will not go to heaven?

Is it really Gods way or mans?

Tj3 · Mar 15, 2009, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Are you saying that non Christians (even if they believe in God) will not go to heaven?

Is it really Gods way or mans?

God's way:

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
NKJV

arcura · Mar 15, 2009, 07:51 PM

classyT,
I do believe that God can and MAY take some people to heaven who are not Christians.
The reason I say that is because God is the final judge and He IS of infinite wisdom, understanding, love, and mercy.
I refuse to out guess Him, that is to think that I know His way better or not that everything is possible with God.
You see I do believe that everything IS possible with God and it is His choice on what He should and will do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 15, 2009, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

classyT,
I do believe that God can and MAY take some people to heaven who are not Christians.

Fred,

A couple of questions:

1) What is your interpretation of this verse:

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
NKJV

2) Do you believe that something other than the blood shed on the cross can save?

savedsinner7 · Mar 15, 2009, 07:54 PM

Fred, One thing is impossible for God to do, and that is to allow sin into heaven. If one has not put their life in Jesus hands and been made clean by Him, then that person WILL NOT be allowed into heaven, regardless of what you may believe. It simply does not line up with what the Bible states about God's character to allow someone who does not OBEY Him into His eternal Glory.

savedsinner7 · Mar 15, 2009, 07:59 PM

TJ, not sure why you disagreed.

Tj3 · Mar 15, 2009, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by savedsinner7

TJ, not sure why you disagreed.

Sorry, my mouse slipped as I was hitting the send, and I did not realize until after I hit send that it changed it it red. My comments were accurate though.

My apologies!

Alty · Mar 15, 2009, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by savedsinner7

Fred, One thing is impossible for God to do, and that is to allow sin into heaven. If one has not put their life in Jesus hands and been made clean by Him, then that person WILL NOT be allowed into heaven, regardless of what you may believe. It simply does not line up with what the Bible states about God's character to allow someone who does not OBEY Him into His eternal Glory.

But does being a Christian automatically guarantee your entry into heaven?

As a Christian, you are supposed to know the bible, God's will, all of it. So, if you sin should you be exempt just because you're Christian? I would think that God would expect more of you becaue you do know his laws, his word. I haven't met anyone who doesn't sin, including Christians.

Does obeying God really mean being a Christian? What about non Christians that still obey God?

Christianity is a man made institution, not a God made one.

savedsinner7 · Mar 15, 2009, 08:02 PM

OK.

Tj3 · Mar 15, 2009, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Altenweg

But does being a Christian automatically guarantee your entry into heaven?

Because it is only the blood shed on the cross that can pay the price for sin.

I haven't met anyone who doesn't sin, including Christians.

Scripture agrees - Romans 3:23

Does obeying God really mean being a Christian? What about non Christians that still obey God?

Their sin has not been paid because they have rejected their Messiah.

Christianity is a man made institution, not a God made one.

Please explain how you conclude this.

savedsinner7 · Mar 15, 2009, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Altenweg

But does being a Christian automatically gaurantee your entry into heaven?

As a Christian, you are supposed to know the bible, God's will, all of it. So, if you sin should you be exempt just because you're Christian? I would think that God would expect more of you becaue you do know his laws, his word. I haven't met anyone who doesn't sin, including Christians.

Does obeying God really mean being a Christian? What about non Christians that still obey God?

Christianity is a man made institution, not a God made one.

Right, we all sin. But the difference is that those who place their lives in Jesus hands believe that he forgives sin when confessed and repented of (to turn completely from the sin). We walk in what God says through His word. Jesus said that it is not enough to hear the word but that we must obey as well (Hebrews 12). He also said that there will be many who call Him Lord, but He will cast them to hell because "I knew you not" meaning that they did not obey and do what He says to do. It's not about being able to follow His laws, it's about listening to and following the leading of His Holy Spirit and allowing God's grace to work through me. There is no way possible that I can obey Him without the grace of God working in me through His Holy Spirit to obey.

arcura · Mar 15, 2009, 08:26 PM

Tj2,
I believe that what that verse says is that Jesus IS the way, truth and life and that no one goes to the Father but by Him
It does not say that Jesus can not take anyone He wants to ti the Father..
Jesus blood saves yes, and I believe it can save any one Jesus wants to be saved.
He IS the judge, not you or I or any other human being.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 15, 2009, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj2,
I believe that what that verse says is that Jesus IS the way, truth and life and that no one goes to the Father but by Him
It does not say that Jesus can not take anyone He wants to ti the Father..
Jesus blood saves yes, and I believe it can save any one Jesus wants to be saved.

God does not contradict His word:

John 3:18-19
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
NKJV

How do you interpret that?

arcura · Mar 15, 2009, 09:18 PM

Tj3,
That is for those who have heard of and about Jesus but not believed.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 15, 2009, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
That is for those who have heard of and about Jesus but not believed.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Where does it say that, Fred?

arcura · Mar 15, 2009, 09:51 PM

Tj3,
That is the point.
In context that passage id talking about people who know of Jesus but do not believe He is who He is.
That verse does not say "every single person regardless of whether they have known about Jesus or not and do not believe on or in him" will be condemned.
I have told you what I believe and I assure you that YOU will not change what I believe about that.
Fred

Tj3 · Mar 15, 2009, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
That is the point.
In context that passage id talking about people who know of Jesus but do not believe He is who He is.

Actually, it does not say that. It only says that those who do not believe in Jesus will not be saved. Further, we cannot base doctrine on what is not said, but rather on what scripture does say. As to the need to be saved by Jesus, scripture is very clear and very specific:

Acts 4:12
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
NKJV

I have told you what I believe and I assure you that YOU will not change what I believe about that.
Fred

I am not out to change your mind. I am looking at what scripture has to say.

You are always welcome to believe as you wish.

Tom

arcura · Mar 15, 2009, 10:18 PM

Tj3,
You have it your way and I'll have it mine, Thank you.
Fred.