[stevetcg]

Yeah, but in California it doesn't matter if paternity is established or not. You can get orders on custody and visitation while the case is pending and before paternity is established. So if mom disputes paternity pre-birth, the court can and may grant dad custodial rights upon the birth of the child and concurrently order genetic testing once the baby is born.

Wow - CA is weird. So essentially, I could go to court and claim the child as MINE and get rights?

[cadillac59]

Wow - CA is weird. So essentially, I could go to court and claim the child as MINE and get rights?

Of course. You don't have to wait for the genetic testing to have temporary custodial rights put into place.

What if a dad took off with a child and later, when mom filed for custody, alleged that the mom wasn't the biological mom, i.e. that she didn't give birth to the child, but she disputed it? Do you think it would be fair to make mom wait until trial (which could take months, or a year) just to be able to see her kids? What's the difference if it's the other way round with a dad?

[stevetcg]

Of course. You don't have to wait for the genetic testing to have temporary custodial rights put into place.

What if a dad took off with a child and later, when mom filed for custody, alleged that the mom wasn't the biological mom, i.e., that she didn't give birth to the child, but she disputed it? Do you think it would be fair to make mom wait until trial (which could take months, or a year) just to be able to see her kids? What's the difference if it's the other way round with a dad?

So what keeps me, an unrelated party to anyone involved, from going to court and filing for rights to any random pregnant woman's unborn child, getting visitation awarded cause I'm convincing, taking the kid for my weekly visitation and disappearing?

I mean the obvious answer "its against the law and you arent a felon" response...

As for the biological mom part... isn't that why they side with the mother if there is a question? After all, there are a few people there that can usually attest to the fact that Junior did, in fact, pop out of mom.

[cadillac59]

Just to add to what I said, here's a real life example: March 2004, Yolo County, California.

I represented a mom. She and her boyfriend (never married) had a kid (1 year old boy). They got into a fight, he threw her against a wall (he denied it), but he claimed she was a meth addict. Mom took off with the kid to go to her mother's house 2 hours away. Dad ran into court and got an ex parte order giving him sole legal and sole physical custody of the kid with zero visitation to mom. He never proved his paternity when the ex parte was granted, just alleged he was the dad.

Mom had no visitation for about 5 weeks until we went to court. At the first hearing (after 5 weeks) the judge asked about paternity and everyone agreed he was the dad. But for 5 weeks he had custody by merely saying he was the dad. Happens all the time. Not so unusual.

[stevetcg]

Just to add to what I said, here's a real life example: March 2004, Yolo County, California.

I represented a mom. She and her boyfriend (never married) had a kid (1 year old boy). They got into a fight, he threw her against a wall (he denied it), but he claimed she was a meth addict. Mom took off with the kid to go to her mother's house 2 hours away. Dad ran into court and got an ex parte order giving him sole legal and sole physical custody of the kid with zero visitation to mom. He never proved his paternity when the ex parte was granted, just alleged he was the dad.

Mom had no visitation for about 5 weeks until we went to court. At the first hearing (after 5 weeks) the judge asked about paternity and everyone agreed he was the dad. But for 5 weeks he had custody by merely saying he was the dad. Happens all the time. Not so unusual.

You live in an odd state, my friend.

[cadillac59]

So what keeps me, an unrelated party to anyone involved, from going to court and filing for rights to any random pregnant woman's unborn child, getting visitation awarded cause im convincing, taking the kid for my weekly visitation and disappearing?

I mean the obvious answer "its against the law and you arent a felon" response...

As for the biological mom part... isnt that why they side with the mother if there is a question? After all, there are a few people there that can usually attest to the fact that Junior did, in fact, pop out of mom.

Fine, but those are all factual questions for trial or for a 20 minute hearing with a judge. I didn't say a judge had to grant any random guy custody of any person's kid just because he claims he's the dad. I just said a judge could do so and it often happens that they do. It's just not as black and white (they always side with the mom) as you think.

[cadillac59]

You live in an odd state, my friend.

Why is that odd?

[stevetcg]

Why is that odd?

Because in most places, if the mother alleges that the father beat her up he goes to jail without much question asked.

Im not saying its wrong... just odd - like not like many other places. But that's long been the popular opinion of CA and the laws there. :)

Some might call CA progressive. Odd works for me too. I fear change. :-D

We should probably stop hijacking this thread though as it has little or nothing to do with the OP's question.

[cadillac59]

Im not saying its wrong... just odd - like not like many other places. But thats long been the popular opinion of CA and the laws there.

Some might call CA progressive. Odd works for me too. I fear change. :-D

Well as a politically liberal gay man, this is why I'd probably never want to live anywhere in the US other than California (or maybe Washington-- they follow our lead on just about everything because they're smart :-))

Yes, we'll call a truce and stop hijacking the thread (my apologies to the powers that be for that!)

You're a good debater! Go to law school my friend!