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classyT · Nov 19, 2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by 450donn

Exactly what I said in different words. There are those that think they are christians and will be left behind( sorry) that will after the ratpure realize the error of their ways and repent. some of those will still refuse to accept the truth

The problem with that thought is that God says that he is sending a strong delusion to those that have heard the truth and rejected it. So I really think that if they HAVE HEARD the gospel and said.. "NO" there is no hope for them However, there are many people who have not heard the true gospel or have heard and not fully understood. THEY will believe and there will be plenty of people that will be running for their lives during this time. I do not envy them. It will be the worst time EVER. But God always has his few that are out preaching the truth to those and there will be people saved during this horrible time.

classyT · Nov 19, 2008, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by plonak

I believe that because who is going to preach to all the non believers if we go up?

There is going to be massive confusion, and I really think God wants us to be there preaching God's word... how else will some of the nonbelievers have a chance to be saved if they have no idea what's going on?

There will be people who will get saved and preach the truth. But the BRIDE of Christ will be raptured out of here. Praise the LORD for his mercy on his Church. We are not appointed to wrath and that is exactly what God is going to pour out.. his wrath. It won't be pretty. It is going to be hell on earth.

arcura · Nov 20, 2008, 10:49 PM

I agree with cogs on this.
I also believe that when the bible speaks of the world and gentiles that the American continents are included.
I also believe that God helped establish the USA in the manner it was for a specific reason, whatever that was or is.
I also believe that the USA will be a major player in several ways during the last days.
I pray that it will be a positive player in God's eyes and intent when that time comes to pass.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

SarahMVA · Nov 30, 2008, 07:26 PM

I have not read all the responses here so forgive me if this has been said. But, to answer the initial question "is Americal in end time prophecy". I would direct you to Rev. 12:14. My pastor has also been doing a in depth study of Revelations and he says that these "eagles wings" could be a reference to the US helping Israel flee. Being that our national symbol is a eagle. Just a idea to play with.
God Bless,
Sarah

N0help4u · Nov 30, 2008, 08:22 PM

I really do think we are entering the last seven years.
I also believe the Bible does refer to America but since it is not named as America in the Bible our eyes are not open to it at least not yet. Here are some sites that give different theories on that.
http://www.geocities.com/christian_crusade/

America in Bible Prophecy

America is a Bible Land

arcura · Nov 30, 2008, 10:41 PM

SarahMVA,
I also believe that American is mentioned in prophesy but not by name.
Fred

classyT · Dec 1, 2008, 07:20 AM

Nohelp,

If we were really in the last 7 years.. where is the anitchirist? And where is that 7 year peace treaty? I don't think so. I think we are so close... but after the rapture (think about how many millions of Americans will go) America will no longer be able to protect Israel, therefore she will need the anitchrist help, even if it is a false help.

classyT · Dec 1, 2008, 07:23 AM

Fred and Sarah,

I think the fact that America the number one super power is NOT mentioned and that the silence is deafening. If in fact we are mentioned in Revelation, we aren't what we are today. AND I submit this question to you, IF we are mentioned... and WE protect Israel today, Why in the world does the antichrist need to step up and sign a 7 year peace treaty?

SarahMVA · Dec 1, 2008, 01:14 PM

classyT,
Well for starters you asked if the US is in the end time prophecy. I gave you a idea on how we might be. No, we would not be the super power we are today. Nobody would be after the rapture and the devistation it would leave. As for Israel and the antichrists peace treaty; this treaty is not between US and Israel it is the peace treaty that presidents have for the last 50 years tried to bring into being. It is a peace treaty between Israel and the rest of the middle east and backed by the antichrist. This treaty will stop anyone from coming agaist Israel. Which will be necessary being that before the tribulation begins Russia will attack Israel. The antichrist will brake this treaty 3.5 years into the tribulation. Which is why Israel will have to flee, and where the eagles wings come in. What are these eagles wings no one knows for sure, but one idea is what I mentioned above.

classyT · Dec 1, 2008, 01:32 PM

Sarah,

I understand that the peace treaty is between the middle east and Israel. My point is Where is America? I mean we are protecting her now. I think you are right.. I think the devastation that the rapture brings will leave us no longer a super power. I will look up that verse in Revelation and check it out. Thanks.

Note... sorry if I sounded snippy up there in my first reply.. I wasn't feeling snippy at all but I re read it and thought.. geesh girl you sound snotty. LOL sorry didn't mean to.

SarahMVA · Dec 1, 2008, 01:41 PM

ClassyT,
That's OK. I have been accused of being snippy and worse when I never meant to be.

SarahMVA · Dec 1, 2008, 01:48 PM

ClassyT,
I have recorded most of my pastors sermons on Revelations. We are about to finish up. We have been studying revelations for over a year every Wednesday. I think you would like the study. I'll try to figure a way to get them to you if you would like to hear them.

arcura · Dec 1, 2008, 04:48 PM

classyT.
That is IF, a very big IF, the rapture take place as it is preached and taught in the end of times books which I thing are mostly fiction.
We'll just have to wait and see when the return of Christ Jesus take place and I think that ill be many years from now because so very many people expect it soon.
Jesus said He will come back when people LEAST expect it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

450donn · Dec 1, 2008, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

classyT.
That is IF, a very big IF, the rapture take place as it is preached and taught in the end of times books which I thing are mostly fiction.
We'll just have to wait and see when the return of Christ Jesus take place and I think that ill be many years from now because so very many people expect it soon.
Jesus said He will come back when people LEAST expect it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

If you are talking about the book series by Tim Lahay called Left Behind? Then yes they are totally fiction and he says so up front.
Now, IF you do not believe in the rapture of the church? Then I guess you do not have a Bible with the book of Revelations in it? Very few people do not subscribe to the rapture theory. Generally speaking the biggest debate is when the churches departure from the earth will take place. Either before the tribulation? Or during the tribulation, or at the end of the tribulation. Which do you as a practicing Catholic subscribe to? Curious minds want to know these things.

Akoue · Dec 1, 2008, 05:43 PM

Actually, very few DO subscribe to the rapture theory. It's prominent among fundamentalists, yes, but most others reject it as lacking a sound scriptural basis.

Tell me, where in *Revelation* do you find talk of the rapture?

classyT · Dec 1, 2008, 08:03 PM

Fred,

The Church is looking for the rapture or they should be. The world isn't. Take a look around on this site alone... the unbelievers think the rapture is balony. Heck half of Christianity does. Trust me, they aren't expecting it.

arcura · Dec 1, 2008, 08:06 PM

450donn,
Yes all eight of my bibles have the book of revelations in them including the 2 versions I have that are the complete bible with the apocrypha.
No where in any of them is the rapture mentioned.
I do not believe in the rapture as it is taught by the fundamentalists.
It is NOT accurately based on Holy Scripture, but is erroneous theology.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

adam7gur · Dec 1, 2008, 11:22 PM

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Also...
1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

arcura · Dec 1, 2008, 11:59 PM

adam7gur
Thanks but that is not about any rapture.
It is a vision experienced by John about Jesus being taken to heaven after His resurrection and Jesus being ruler of the earth when His return comes.
Yes some will meet with Him in the clouds at the time of Jesus Christ's return and I believe that modern day media will make it possible for the whole world to witness that ONE time return.
No rapture as it is preached in any of that.
Peace and kindness.
Fred

adam7gur · Dec 2, 2008, 02:22 AM

Fred
I don't see the point of John being in ecstasy and watching visions about things that he has already witnessed with his own eyes , like our Lord's resurrection and Him being received up into heaven.
This vision is about something that is going to happen and not something that has already happened.