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firmbeliever · Sep 8, 2009, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by galveston

Are you a Muslim?

I read your post with interest. If you are a Muslim, and your post accurately reflects what you believe, then I have no argument on this point.

I thought you knew about Islamic belief in Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam and that he did not die but was taken up by the Almighty and will return during the End times to abolish falsehood and establish the truth.

galveston · Sep 8, 2009, 01:19 PM

Firm,

Thank you for that clarification.

What are we fighting about, anyway? (I speak of world events)

Is it true that Mohommed says that Christians are to be protected? Or is that incorrect?

firmbeliever · Sep 8, 2009, 01:39 PM

The fights I assume will continue until Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam descends when there will be peace on earth before the end of the world.

Differences in belief,political agendas are just some of the reason why the fighting continues.

“Say (O Muslims): 'We believe in Allaah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibraaheem (Abraham), Ismaa'eel (Ishmael), Ishaaq (Isaac), Ya'qoob (Jacob), and to Al-Asbaat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qoob (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Moosa (Moses) and 'Isa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)'” [al-Baqarah 2:136]

We believe in all the revealed books.
Islam Question and Answer - The reality of belief in the Books

I will have to look up that hadith (Prophetic saying), it could have been protection of the Christians living peacefully amongst Muslims during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

galveston · Sep 9, 2009, 11:01 AM

Are there other variations within Islam than Sunni and Shi'ite?

If it is not too personal, which do you claim?

So far, from your posts, it looks like the main(?) significant difference between us is that we say that Jesus is the Son of God, while you do not.

Do you accept the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

firmbeliever · Sep 9, 2009, 11:49 AM

There are minority groups who claim to be Muslim,but their beliefs are very much different from Sunni Muslim,which is based on the Quran and Sunnah (Prophetic traditions/sayings).
Some of those who belong to these minority groups are Qardawi,Ahmadiyya,Bahai, Sufi and Nation of Islam.

I am a Sunni Muslim.
The largest Shia Muslim population is found in Iran.

I think the main difference between us is the point you have mentioned;
That Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam is a Prophet and Messenger from the Almighty and the second difference is that we do not believe he was crucified.

We do not follow any of the Old or New Testaments which Christians refer to because we follow the Quran which we believe to be the last and final revelation with all the guidelines we need to follow.

You might like to have a look at some of the similarities between our books.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
/wiki/Biblical_narratives_and_the_Qur%27an

galveston · Sep 10, 2009, 02:42 PM

Firm,

Thank you for your reply.

I have a further question: If you are willing to accept Jesus a Prophet, Priest, and King, why do you hesitate to accept Him as your Saviour?

That would seem to me to be a short step from where you are.

firmbeliever · Sep 10, 2009, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by galveston

Firm,

I have a further question: If you are willing to accept Jesus a Prophet, Priest, and King, why do you hesitate to accept Him as your Saviour?

That would seem to me to be a short step from where you are.

No, that is not a short step,not from where I stand.

That's a long step from strict monotheism to believing another human being can save me .
And putting another human alongside the Almighty is not something I could ever accept.

And the burden of what we do is in our hands and we alone are questionable for our deeds,how can someone else take responsibility for what I have done;that is another thing that I do not believe in.

But when Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam descends and if I am alive then I will be 100% behind him all the way.This does not mean that I will bow down to him or think of him as my saviour.

galveston · Sep 11, 2009, 03:31 PM

OK, Firm,

Since you accept Jesus as Prophet, Priest, and King, do you accept the things He has said about Himself and His mission to Earth?

It wouldn't make a lot of sense to accept a prophet and ignore his prophecy.

firmbeliever · Sep 11, 2009, 03:57 PM

What was the prophecy?

galveston · Sep 12, 2009, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

What was the prophecy?

I hope that you understand that a prophet does more than fortell future events. He actually speaks for God. Much prophecy is correctional in nature.

But I will give you a small sample of what Jesus taught. Let's look at His prophecy concerning Jerusalem.

Matt 24:1-2
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
(KJV)
Luke 21:20
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(KJV)
Luke 21:24
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
(KJV)

All this came to pass in 70 AD

I know that you do not believe that Jesus is The Son of God, in the unique sense. Look at a few of the things that Jesus said. Remember, you recognize Him as a prophet.

Matt 11:27
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
(KJV)
Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(KJV)
Matt 16:27
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
(KJV)
John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.
(KJV) (Note the word "are". This statement shows the perfect unity between Father and Son)
John 14:7-11
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
(KJV)

I know you don't believe that Jesus was crucified, but see what He Himself said on that subject.

Matt 20:18-19
18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
(KJV) (Also recorded by Mark and Luke)

This is a small protion of the historical record, carefully preserved down through the centuries.

Are you willing to accept the words of the Prophet Jesus?

firmbeliever · Sep 12, 2009, 12:41 PM

As I mentioned earlier we follow the Quran as the last and final revelation and we believe in Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam as a Prophet who will return later,but we do not believe that he would ask of us to worship through him or to him.

galveston · Sep 12, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

As I mentioned earlier we follow the Quran as the last and final revelation and we believe in Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam as a Prophet who will return later,but we do not believe that he would ask of us to worship through him or to him.

Well, do you have evidence that the reports of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are in error?

If they are not in error, then what they say has to be considered, as they give us a first-hand look at what Jesus taught about Himself.

What I am saying is that you have to either disprove the record or accept the teaching of the Prophet.

firmbeliever · Sep 12, 2009, 05:14 PM

Lets not get into that, you will believe as you believe and I will believe as I believe. :)

galveston · Sep 14, 2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Lets not get into that, you will believe as you believe and I will believe as I believe. :)

Might be worth thinking about?:)

firmbeliever · Sep 14, 2009, 02:28 PM

You know how these type of discussions always ends up, it becomes an argument and not a discussion anymore,because faith/belief is a sensitive subject and we are both firmbelievers in our own faiths.

Lets just keep it that way. :)