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DrJ · Mar 14, 2006, 02:11 PM

This is going to get sticky... lol I want to apologize upfront for any and all the tangents I may go on here and would also like to say that I am not a scholar

There are quite a few concepts of delusion. I suppose it can all be summed up with this definition: "A delusion is a false belief or a false concept of reality." Which, as you foresaw, brings us to the definition of reality. (LOL, I can't believe Im even going to try to attempt this) How about: the quality or state of being real. Real: "not artificial, fraudulent, illusory, or apparent"

Now this just opens up a whole can of worms...

Okay, without losing too much credibility, think of it like The Matrix (yes, the movie). Minus the man-made computer, of course. And adding the choice we had to become part of it. But its as if our real selves are not here. We are not who we are. This is all just a delusion... and in another aspect, it is an illusion.

We believe many things. We believe this is The Life. We believe we know the Truth of many things. We believe in proof. We believe in the 5 senses. We believe we actually KNOW these things. I believe these are delusions. As Humans, we lack the ability of True Knowledge... the ability to Truly Know things. Many may protest this but that is another topic.

"We are not Human Beings on a Spiritual Journey, we are Spritual Beings on a Human Journey."

(I could go on for hours... but lets start there lol)

ScottGem · Mar 14, 2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So what was the intelligent designer doing before the universe was created?

Well if you want my OPINION, it was experimenting with other ideas for other universes. My feeling is we are just one of the ideas that was tried. We could be a cosmic joke or the best result from loads of tries.

DrJ · Mar 14, 2006, 02:24 PM

I have a hard time grasping the idea that God is just some dude up there trying this and trying that. Our Human nature forces us to put things into perspective. We cannot grasp what God really is. The closest thing that we can do is imagine that He is just like us. Sure, the Bible says that we were created in Gods image... but then again, when exactly were we created? Could it be the beginning of our existence that this was referring to? By the beginning, I mean LONG before we were ever part of this Earth. We put God into this Man-shaped shell all the time. We act as if He was bound to the confines of Time and Space.

ScottGem · Mar 14, 2006, 04:51 PM

To Dr Jizzle,
I agree to a large extent. Any being that is so powerful as to create this universe is really beyond the ken of our perception. That's why mankind created religions to try and put into terms we can understand the enormity of the universe. Its one of the reasons I believe they way I do.

31pumpkin · Mar 15, 2006, 04:37 PM

Drjizzle

I believe you are mixing up the word delusion with "ILLUSION"

The Matrix is a work of illusionism. Check it out in the Dictionary.

So far, Fr. Chuck has given a decent answer.

And if he's listening...

I think your right Fr. Chuck. I think God did give your father that state of mind to comfort him in his last days or so.

DrJ · Mar 15, 2006, 05:04 PM

Well, an illusion is an "unreal vision" and a delusion is a "false belief." They are both very similar.

I suppose for those people who do not know, they are living a delusion. And for those who DO know, they are simply living the illusion.

Are we not simply souls living in a temporary body being fed false sensory information? Its like the blue pill and the red pill...

The question is asking us whether reality, truth, is worth pursuing.

The blue pill will leave us as we are, in a life consisting of habit, of things we believe we know. We are comfortable, we do not need truth to live. The blue pill symbolises commuting to work every day, or brushing your teeth.

The red pill is an unknown quantity. We are told that it can help us to find the truth. We don't know what that truth is, or even that the pill will help us to find it. The red pill symbolises risk, doubt and questioning. In order to answer the question, you can gamble your whole life and world on a reality you have never experienced.

31pumpkin · Mar 15, 2006, 07:37 PM

I agree with your concept of what these two words mean. When a person becomes out of touch with reality, literally, & cannot function & take care of themselves, this becomes a mental disorder of the major type. A psychosis as seen in Manic-Depressives who think & believe they are Napoleon or such, and get on the bridge to lead the forces(literally)
We have seen an example of a possible benign state not requiring therapy.
Most people fall into the category of neurotic at times LOL! Quite minor maybe.
What's the expression? Neurotics build sandcastles, but Psychotics live in them.

I like your RED pill theory. Although we will always & should have the Blue pill (at least till we die or retire)
The RED pill, in my opinion is worth pursuing. All probably doubt @ one time or another. But when it comes to the faith, "we" must ask for forgiveness for that.
Truth is always worth pursuing, especially if you are not on that plane Spiritually, and where you'd like to be with that. That's the kind of truth I'm talking about.
Risk. Well it can be dangerous, so use due care. B/c it is certainly exhilarating probably for the athletes & race car drivers, & for american idol singers!
Anyway, lastly, questioning can be good. But I think the satisfaction of the answer is better.