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Expert
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Mar 8, 2008, 09:20 AM
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Yes, Luther had no desire to start a new church, he merely wanted to change some of the things wrong within the church he was in.
And so much of it had to do with political issues that are seldom addressed, at the time the Princes of Germany were looking for a break from Rome, not as much for religious ideas but to stop having to pay the high taxes Rome put on them. So when Rome basically sentenced Luther to death for his challenge, the Princes of Germany used this as a symbol to get behind and fight for their independence. Had the political issues not been happening, Luther would have merely been another dead priest killed by refusal to follow rome at the time.
I guess it is only because of the lack of knowledge of the Orthodox Churches, that pepole don't talk about them more, since they have their Patriarchs which to them are equal to the Pope. ( or in their teachings all of the Leaders ( Bishops) were all equal.
 Originally Posted by Athos
Wondergirl and Fr. Chuck have answered very well. I would only add that the Pope is really the original major difference between Catholics and Protestants. The differences in "dogma" came later. When Luther posted his complaints at Wittenberg, he never dreamed his action would result in what it did. He was, after all, a Catholic priest. But what he did forced the Catholic Church to mend its ways. By 1560, the Church had begun its reform but it was too late and Christianity has never been the same since.
As to the Eucharist, as Chuck said, many Protestants see it pretty much the way Catholics do. Some don't. Either side can provide good arguments for its position. It's one of those things that really can't be "proven" one way or the other. In any case, arguing over dogma leads nowhere.
The core of Christianity is love - love God, and love your neighbor. All the rest is just a footnote.
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Junior Member
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Mar 8, 2008, 04:22 PM
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What do catholics, such as yourselves, believe will get you into heaven.
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Jobs & Parenting Expert
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Mar 8, 2008, 04:30 PM
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I'm Lutheran. "By grace are you saved, through faith. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph. 2:8,9. My Catholic neighbors believe this too.
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Full Member
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Mar 8, 2008, 04:42 PM
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 Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I'm Lutheran. "By grace are you saved, through faith. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph. 2:8,9. My Catholic neighbors believe this too.
A United Methodist Amen!
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Junior Member
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Mar 8, 2008, 04:44 PM
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 Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I'm Lutheran. "By grace are you saved, through faith. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph. 2:8,9. My Catholic neighbors believe this too.
except I attend a non-denominatiopnal church.
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Full Member
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Mar 10, 2008, 01:13 PM
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Interestingly, Fr. Charles Chiniquy refused to swear to accept and preach what the holy fathers decreed on the grounds that the holy fathers never agreed with each other on anything.
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Full Member
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Mar 16, 2008, 04:06 AM
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To figure out the difference you need to look at what their teachings are based on. TRUE christians follow in Jesus footsteps and this means not only in word but also in actions, as he said in John 13:15 - "For I set the pattern for You, that just as I did to You, You should do also."
Interestingly Pope Paul VI stated when addressing the United Nations in 1965 "The peoples of the earth turn to the United Nations as the last hope of concord and peace; We presume to present here, together with Our own, their tribute of honor and of hope."
Does that harmonise with Jesus sayings at Matt 6:9,10 where Jesus says to pray for God's Kingdom to bring peace and security? (See also Daniel 2:44) Or Psalms 146:3 not to put our trust in mere nobles or earthling man?
An obvious difference is that Jesus instructed all christians in Luke 6:27,28 to "continue loving our enemies, doing good to those hating us, to bless those cursing us and to pray for those insulting us." Do people follow Jesus pattern when they go out to the killing fields supposedly "in the name of the Father"? Or does it appear that they ignore the apostles words in Acts 5:29 to obey God as ruler rather than man, by going along with what governments dictate?
As regards the Virgin Mary, in John 14:6,14 Jesus said that No one comes to the Father except through him, and whatever we ask in HIS name will be given - no mention of Mary.
You are quite right about the graven images too, which is why true christians also avoid wearing crosses etc. After all, this "tradition" dates back to Nimrod who was deified as the God Tammuz - his symbol being the cross, which stood for the first letter of his deified name. Nimrod was recorded in the bible as being an enemy of God (Gen 10:9). Would God approve of his people worshipping something that represents an opposer of his but is being used in his or his sons' name?
2 Tim 3:16 states that "ALL scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight and for disciplining in righteousness." So since God has clearly set out rules and regulations throughout his Word in how to worship him, I guess there is no excuse for traditions etc to creep into ones faith if they clearly do not originate with God.
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Ultra Member
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Apr 2, 2008, 10:18 PM
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 Originally Posted by ineedhelpfast
some people say that christians and catholics are very similar, but they do divide because of some major doctrinal issues.
That is true.
such as mass or eucharist. Catholics believe that when we take communion that the wafer actually becomes the body of jesus and the wine or juice or whatever is used
The wine.
becomes the blood of jesus.
Correct. We believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
where as christians believe,
Catholics are Christian.
that this is just symbolic
I'm not certain, but I think most Christians, at least the world's largest Christian denominations (i.e. Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist), teach belief in the Real Presence:
1 Different understandings
1.1 Roman Catholic and Orthodox views
1.2 Lutherans - the Sacramental Union: "in, with, and under the forms of bread and wine"
1.3 Anglicans - broad range of opinions
1.4 Methodism - Real Presence as "Holy Mystery"
1.5 Reformed (Calvinist, Presbyterian, most United churches) - "Real Presence" as "pneumatic presence"
1.6 Other Protestants - no Real Presence
Real Presence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and that christ body being broken and blood being shed was only to needed once to cover the sins of mankind.
That is Catholic Teaching.
1 Peter 3
18 Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit,
there are other differences, but I'm just doing this to clear the record. Agree, disagree why
I agree that there are doctrinal differences between Catholics and other Christians. Yes.
Sincerely,
De Maria
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