[BABRAM]

No. I meant "you people". It's vague. It doesn't have to mean USA. In this instance, it meant all the people I considered to be idiots.


... ??? Are... are you stupid? Or are you just making things up? I disagreed with Huckabee, then asked if I was wrong to disagree. You said I was. How can an opinion be wrong? Or do you assume that I said "you can't change the constitution because you just can't"... because that's what it looks like you think I said, and I definitely didn't.

I'm not going to chastise your personal degrading comments, that's up to the moderator to chide you for childish behaviour here. I will, however, detail how you compromised any integrity you may have had for the embarrassment that you brought upon yourself.

You quoted me as having said: Originally Posted by BABRAM
"I have no problem with his desired expression to change the Constitution based on his views, or anyone else, including if the candidate was a lifelong Atheist for that matter."


Then you followed by asking me a question in the form of a statement:

I'd like to know why.

I have a problem with it because it's not his constitution to change, and because this country is supposed to be seperate from the church. That's how America was founded, remember? People left England because the Church of England was too closely tied to the government. It was so bad, that everyone was willing to risk death and uncertainty to cross the ocean to get to America, rather than spend another day living under England's rule.

Why some of you people see nothing wrong with this, I'll never know.

I answer it from several factual aspects: freedom of speech, historical context (after you brought up the Church of England), and then legalities.

.fkl;aej;gjagjrjopr&$^#@(YROUHFAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH H

OK listen to me. Pay attention carefully. I never once said that the constitution can't be changed. I'm meerly saying that I disagree with his reasons for change. I've already stated that what.... 4-5 times now? An opinion can't be wrong. Not everyone will agree with me and I'm fine with that. That's the way it's supposed to be. How can an opinion be wrong? Leave it to you to twist my words around..

Son (or daughter), cussing at me doesn't make it right. You did this to yourself. I stated before that I don't agree with Huckabee on some issues.

I've already asked you once. Do you agree or disagree with Huckabees decision to changing the constitution? Do you like the fact that he wants to add abortion and gay marriage to the constitution? You've yet to answer me.

More than likely because I was to busy correcting your mistakes and catching you up to speed. Again I agree with his right to propose a Constitutional change. Personally on the issue of abortion I stand with Pro-Life advocates, with exception of rape or if the mother's life is in danger. There is no such thing as a "gay marriage," and never has been. What you are attempting to suggest is same sex unions, that of which I could careless about.

Lastly, why do you sign everyting at the end. "Bobby". We fukn know who wrote it, you're name is to the left of the message every time. The only other guy who I ever saw do that used the screen name "Beethoven", and he would do the same thing you do... -Beet. He always came off as a pompus , better than everyone personality. You're awefully close. Beets, is that you? I wouldn't doubt it..

BABRAM is my screen name, and my real given name is "Bobby." I attempt to accept everyone on a worthy respectable personal level. Why make enemies with complete strangers? Subjects that are posted on this board can be googled and that reflects on all of us. If "EuRa" is not on your birth certificate and you do not wish to confine your actual given name here, then that's up to you. I have no clue who it is using the screen name of ""Beethoven", nor do I care because it's not relative to the post or your behaviour which has become deplorable.

omg, everyone in the politics section does it. Elliot. Choux. Who are you people? Nobodies! Same as me! omg.

I personally know Elliot. Thank G-d he's is not like you. He's mature beyond your 27 years of adolescence. As for Choux (Mary) she may disagree with me at times (and passionately I might add), but she never once cussed at me personally.





Bobby

[inthebox]

Mike Huckabee for President - Issues

This amounts to a government overthrow than does his expressed religious view.

To the government tax money is their god. :)

[Fr_Chuck]

Actually he is telling people he wants to stop gay marriage and abortion because it is a very popular among conservative voters.

The US constitution has been adminded many times.

And it is really not his religion he is merely saying what many voters want to hear, that the US Constitution will be returned to say what many believe it should say or did say before our courts has watered it down

[EuRa]

Bobby... do you even read what you write? None of it makes sense. Here's what went down in simple terms:

1) Someone stated how Huckabee wants to change the constitution to meet "God's Standard".
2) You danced around the topic, basically saying "I support free speech", which doesn't really say anything.
3) I called Huckabee an idiot. That's my opinion. Why would anyone suggest changing the Constitution to reflect his or her own personal beliefs, let alone someone running for President. It's going to hurt his campaign big time. I disagreed.
4) You went on to tell me "Dude, EuRa, the Constitution is change-able man.", and called my opiniong "wrong". AN OPINION IS WRONG? Now I see what I'm dealing with here. Besides, what you said I said wasn't what I said to begin with, so I corrected you... then re-corrected you... etc etc. You still don't seem to get it, I don't know maybe you are pretending to be stupid.
5) I asked if you agreed or disagreed that the Constitution should be changed to reflect his religious beliefs. You never answered. This is the closest to an answer, which isn't even an answer:

I agree with his right to propose a Constitutional change.

YOU AGREE WITH HIS RIGHT TO A PROPOSAL? WHO DOESN'T! WHAT KIND OF ANSWER IS THAT! You totally avoided my question. Danced around it, didn't answer it. I'm not asking if you agree to his right to a proposal, I'm asking if you agree with his proposal. Do I need to re-write it so even a little kid could understand?

Do you, Bobby, agree with Huckabee when he states we need to change or amend the Constitution to agree with "God's Standard"?

Stop changing my words. Stop trying to alter what I'm trying to say. You don't get it, you won't get it, so drop it. I disagree with Huckabee, that's all you need to know. I'll drop everything else just so it doesn't confuse you any more than it already has. The only question I have for you, is the same question I've had all along. And you've yet to answer it. Why not? Afraid to disagree with Huckabee? Or afraid to agree with me? Which is it?

[EuRa]

Actually he is telling people he wants to stop gay marriage and abortion because it is a very popular amoung conservitive voters.

The US constitution has been adminded many times.

And it is really not his religion he is merley saying what many voters want to hear, that the US Constitution will be returned to say what many beleive it should say or did say before our courts has watered it down

Here's a direct quote from Huckabee:

"But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

He wants to change it because this is what the people want to hear? How come no other candidate is saying it then? I guess it's just a coincidence that he's a minister, right? Read the above quote. Sounds like the reasoning to me is to change the constitution to meet the requirements of his God. Well my God doesn't like that, and he's telling me to tell Huckabee and his supporters to piss off. That's what I'm doing.

I like how Huckabee put himself in charge of determining God's standards. Never mind the fact that the President of the United States must take an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

And never mind the fact that the Constitution he must protect includes the First Amendment, which explicitly states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Yeah, let's ignore all that and just go willy nilly on the Constitution just because he wants to. Smooth.

[EuRa]

I just know the Constitution very well. Our founding fathers would throw Huckabee out the door if he was around during their days. They were religious men too, but they were smart enough to separate church and state. Huckabee should be hung just for suggesting to combine the two.

[Fr_Chuck]

The bible is Gods rules and the constitution is set basically on it, and actually if the founding fathers saw what our Supreme Court has done with the rulings on it, they may have made George Washington a King instead, They would never had intended it to be abused to such an level that America has taken it.

They would never had allowed some of the issue Huckabee want "changed" like abortion, So one has to wonder if he is not really trying to make things more like the founding fathers had wanted.

[EuRa]

The bible is Gods rules and the constitution is set basicly on it, and actually if the founding fathers saw what our Supreme Court has done with the rulings on it, they may have made George Washington a King instead, They would never had intended it to be abused to such an level that America has taken it.

They would never had allowed some of the issue Huckabee want "changed" like abortion, So one has to wonder if he is not really trying to make things more like the founding fathers had wanted.

How can you say they would never allow it... then say Huckabee is trying to make things the way they wanted it. Those are exact opposites, unless I'm reading you incorrectly.

And the Constitution wasn't based on the Bible. According to this government website that's sole purpose is to inform the American people about all official historical documents in our history:

NARA | The National Archives Experience

"Several of the ideas in the Constitution were new, and a large number of ideas were drawn from the literature of Republicanism in the United States, from the experiences of the 13 states, and from the British experience with mixed government. The most important influence from the European continent was from Montesquieu, who emphasized the need to have balanced forces pushing against each other to prevent tyranny. (This in itself reflects the influence of Polybius' 2nd century BC treatise on the checks and balances of the constitution of the Roman Republic.) John Locke is known to have been a major influence, and the due process clause of the United States Constitution was partly based on common law stretching back to the Magna Carta of 1215."

Nothing about the Bible is mentioned anywhere in that link. Go ahead, browse around. I've heard several Christians, even arguing with me in church, that this country was founded on the Bible. They claim it to be true, but it isn't. My cousin works for the Dept of the White House, and he knows more about all historical documents than anyone I know. He agrees with me, the Bible has nothing to do with the Constitution. If you can't believe the Government, or the direct words from the founding fathers on that website Fr_Chuck, then I guess you just choose to believe yourself without any proof, and there's nothing I can say about that.

[BABRAM]

EuRa- Please tell me you're impotent. I'm really starting to worry that you might have kids one day. You can either take correction like an adult or put me on your ignore list. But one thing you're not ever going to be able to do, no matter how big a temper-tantrum you throw is think that I have to drop it, because you said so. Son, you may act like punk, but you are not a dictator.

If what you espouse is an education than truly the standards have been lowered in the past 27 years. Not only do I read what I type, but so did Elliot, and apparently the moderators. You can bet your tuchus that I'd be first to challenge Huckabee, I even answered so in the very first reply to Choux's assumed posted question. Your questions were assumptions that had to be corrected. So far you're lucky that the moderator took the post to the discussion forum and didn't suspend you for poor behaviour.





Bobby

[EuRa]

EuRa- Please tell me you're impotent. I'm really starting to worry that you might have kids one day. You can either take correction like an adult or put me on your ignore list. But one thing you're not ever going to be able to do, no matter how big a temper-tantrum you throw is think that I have to drop it, because you said so. Son, you may act like punk, but you are not a dictator.

If what you espouse is an education than truly the standards have been lowered in the past 27 years. Not only do I read what I type, but so did Elliot, and apparently the moderators. You can bet your tuchus that I'd be first to challenge Huckabee, I even answered so in the very first reply to Choux's assumed posted question. Your questions were assumptions that had to be corrected. So far you're lucky that the moderator took the post to the discussion forum and didn't suspend you for poor behaviour.

Bobby

Blah blah blah. Still didn't answer my question. 5-6 times I've asked now. All you can do is throw out some big words that never amount to anything close to an answer. I read your so-called "answer" in your first reply. All you did was answer by asking more questions. "I don't know what he means by such a statement" and "what makes Christian Constitution superior?"... huh? What do you mean "what does he mean?" He said what he meant on several news sites. Can't you figure that out? Who said his idea was superior! I never read that anywhere.

Some people (you) think about things too much. When you over think, you look beyond the main point of the discussion, and do what you're doing, which amounts to nothing.

This entire time, I've stated over and over why it's a bad idea. You know exactly where I stand and why. But where does BAM stand? Nobody knows.




Bobby's God

[EuRa]

Also Bob, if this amendment exists in the Constitution (and let's assume you wrote it so that you can feel powerful):

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

And then someone who wants to be elected to office says this:

"I want to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards"

You're telling me you wouldn't be a little peeved? If you are American, shouldn't you love the Constitution and abide by it? If that's the case, why aren't you like me: upset that someone wants to bypass an Amendment of the Constitution, which was made to control people like Huckabee from turning this country into one too closely tied to religion.

I'm sorry Bobb-o, but the majority of problems in this world is due to religion. Jews and the Arabs fight each other. Hitler wanted to exterminate all Jews as well, thus creating WWII. There has been secular violence in Iraq and dozens of other countries for decades because of religion. The farther we are from religion, the better.

[BABRAM]

Obviously I answered the question on levels beyond your comprehension. What part of "I'd be the first to challenge Huckabee" do you not understand. I already went over the religious aspect in my original reply to Choux, then with you I answered to correct your misconceptions with several factual aspects: freedom of speech, historical context (after you brought up the Church of England), and then legalities.

What do you mean by "Bam's God?" Are you making a sarcastic threat about Judaism? That I have a faith in G-d? Does the fact that I'm Jewish have you wanting to load me up on a cattle car for the showers? I knew it was just matter of time before you showed your true colors.




Bobby

[George_1950]

Huckabee (R Presidential Candidate) said today that the Constitution should be changed to reflect God's Word as reflected in the Christian Bible. I don't know what specifically he has in mind, but isn't he advocating the overthrow of our government?

I believe this is an example of that old saying, 'Just give him enough rope and he'll hang himself.'

[tomder55]

All I know is that this comment and the comments of his campaign manager Ed Rollins about Reagan Conservativism being dead is all I need to know in my consideration about him. He is a Jimmy Carter "conservative ". His economic solutions are right out of the Democrat play book. His foreign policy essay in Foreign Affairs Magazine was rambling and incoherent. All he had to his credit was his social values .Shake, Rattle and Roil the Grand Ol' Coalition - New York Times

But his statement crosses the line big time. If he is the nominee he will be the living personification of the false caricature that the Democrats tried to label onto President Bush .

[NeedKarma]

first I don't know he said it, I have not heard it officially and in political times there are more liies about canidates than truth.

The Raw Story | Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution," Huckabee told a Michigan audience on Monday. "But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living god. And that's what we need to do -- to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view."

There is also a video on that page as well.

[excon]

Hello:

He's saying he's going to change the Constitution. He's telling us about it beforehand. That gives us a fair picture of the man.

George Bush, however, changed our Constitution, and DIDN'T tell us about it beforehand. He even lies about it afterwards. That's worse! - a thousand times worse!!

excon

[tomder55]

From a philosophical standpoint yes it would be easier to change the Constitution than the word of God .

I dispute his contention that the Constitution NEEDS to be changed so it's in God's standards .

The Huckster preached from the pulpit Sunday . The Associated Press: Huckabee Eschews Politics for Preaching
I would suggest he should decide what he wants to be ;President or Preacher .

[BABRAM]

Tom- Huckabee might not pull out of the campaign, but he'll never get the chance to carry out his rhetoric and promises. I suspect he's done by the end of next month, at least I'm hopeful. He doesn't have my support. He's pandering to Evangelical Republicans.


Bobby

[speechlesstx]

Tom- Huckabee might not pull out of the campaign, but he'll never get the chance to cary out his rhetoric and promises. I suspect he's done by the end of next month, at least I'm hopeful. He doesn't have my support. He's pandering to Evangelical Republicans.

He isn't just pandering, he pretty much has them wrapped around his finger now. He's been running around the country preaching for a long time. In fact he preached at a Baptist church here in July and convinced my oldest brother that he was the man - without discussing politics. Even as an evangelical that's what bothers me, how many people might be supporting him as pastor without regard as to what kind of president he would be.

[excon]

that's what bothers me, how many people might be supporting him as pastor without regard as to what kind of president he would be.

Hello Steve:

How many? All those people who think this is a Christian country. I think there's quite a few people who think that.

excon