[RubyPitbull]

LOL. Possibly they would have the upperhand on that, but I think there would be enough conservative news writers and TV news programs that would get their voices heard somewhere amidst the din of the liberal bleating.

[excon]

Hello tom:

I don't disagree that the statistics say we're booming... Indeed, the "haves" are having a lot more these days, that's for sure.

However, when I look around my neighborhood, I see people working at Wal Mart who used to work in the lumber mills. I see people working at the new McDonalds down the road who used to build cars. I see manufacturing jobs going overseas to China or to Mexico, and being replaced with jobs as clerks or car salesman.

I suppose they could be counted as new jobs and spun to look like we're booming.

But, in the real world, the average worker is getting behinder and behinder. His REAL standard of living has been declining for years. He knows it too.

And NO, I didn't need the media to tell me that.

excon

[RubyPitbull]

LOL excon. You do have a way with words. Yes, all figures can be spun. I didn't believe the gov't stats & info before Bush was in office, and I don't believe them now. I have to go by what I am seeing around me. And, you are right. Our largest employers have and continue to go out of business in the past 5 years. I see empty storefronts on my Main Street. Those people who were trained for specific work in the factory & construction sectors are having a very tough time of it. I have one three family rental property investment with a partner, and my tenants are floundering. The net effect is that it leaves me floundering. My taxes have shot up dramatically this past year. I managed to lock in at a decent rate for oil, but that price of course, has increased in the past year. My grocery bills are much higher for the basic necessities. I walk out of the store with two average sized bags and $80 less in my pocket.

On the upside of all of this, the need to decrease my expenditures and figure out where I can tighten my belt further, allows me to keep my brain functioning at optimum level, so maybe I will avoid altzheimers (sp?) after all! But, when I think about it, having my mental faculties diminished will allow me the luxury of not worrying all the time as I am currently doing. It is all such a quandry. ;)

[tomder55]

Yup I know people who used to draft for a living but their job no longer existed . They could've settled for a Walmart job I guess but instead they retrained and learned how to use CAD . There used to be a great demand for blacksmiths before the automobile also .


Your neighbors who worked at the mill were pretty busy when home prices were going through the roof. Did you think it realistic for the housing boom to go on forever ? I didn't .

Do you really think that Detroit could continue to compete with increasing demands from labor while workers not only in China ,Japan ,and Mexico (not to mention Tennessee ) were not making the same demands?

More important from a libertarian point of view ; what role should government have in guaranteeing your job ?

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Your knee jerked.

I said nothing about the government owing these people anything other than to count them and assess their plight accurately. That isn't now being done.

That was my point, and it still is.

excon

[tomder55]

Economic reports I read break it down by sector. A bigger problem is that the press will report a housing bubble burst as an indicator of a weakness in the overall economy. That is where the inaccurate reporting is being done.

[NeedKarma]

That is where the inaccurate reporting is being done.

C'mon Tom, you and I know that the only accurate reporting is the one that jives with your ideals. :)

[RubyPitbull]

yup I know people who used to draft for a living but their job no longer existed . They could've settled for a Walmart job I guess but instead they retrained and learned how to use CAD . There used to be a great demand for blacksmiths before the automobile also .

Your neighbors who worked at the mill were pretty busy when home prices were going through the roof. Did you think it realistic for the housing boom to go on forever ? I didn't .

Do you really think that Detroit could continue to compete with increasing demands from labor while workers not only in China ,Japan ,and Mexico (not to mention Tennessee ) were not making the same demands?

More important from a libertarian point of view ; what role should goverment have in guaranteeing your job ?

Tom, although I never expected home prices to keep going through the roof and recognize that a correction in the market was required, there are many people who weren't prepared for it. Not everyone is capable of understanding or planning for the future. Why are all those people who bought houses at inflated prices, now losing them to foreclosure? Do you think they were purposely stupid? Many were sucked in by less than ethical mortgage brokers who were looking to make money off people who weren't savvy enough to question them. For that part of this discussion, I believe we need more stringent laws in place protecting the consumer from unlicensed mortgage brokers and minimally monitored RE agencies.

That is nice that you know people who were able to retrain and find jobs within their fields. You live in a major metropolitan area and haven't seen what all this means to people living in other parts of the country, where the closest city is a few hours away. The largest employer currently in my area is a gun manufacturer. They have been downsizing over the past few years and are talking about closing shop altogether. At the moment I believe they still provide at least 1,000 jobs to this area. What do you propose all those people do? How do you retrain and find a job locally, in an area you were born and raised, in which your family and friends all live, when you are competing for jobs with all your friends and co-workers who are in the same boat? Yes, some can retrain and find jobs locally. Some will be forced to sell their homes and move to an area that will provide them opportunities. But, it is unrealistic to expect all of them to leave the area they were born and raised in. If that occurred, we would have nothing but huge metropolises with nothing in between except a few outposts and tumble weeds.

Of course the government cannot guarantee anyone's job. But, why do some people refuse to hold them at least partially accountable for any actions they take that lead to domestic difficulties? Of course the media is partially responsible for creating an overreaction in people, but doesn't our federal government hold any responsibility for the current difficulties we are facing now?

[tomder55]

doesn't our federal government hold any responsibility for the current difficulties we are facing now?

Yes they do... those who know me from other postings know I have been critical of needless government expansion;spending (and that includes Bush and the Republican watch) . I think that causes much of the hardships .

Example : yes you can blame financial institutions in part for the sub-prime mess. But also keep in mind that they were under increasing pressure by lawmakers to make risky loans available to people who did not qualify under normal circumstances.

Trust me ;the banks are already feeling the hit for their sloppy practices and more is to come .The deal President Bush negotiated with the lending institutions (without a taxpayer hit by the way ) to bail SOME of the home buyers out is sound governance . I know of no lending institution that would prefer to hold a default loan.

Government bail out is NOT sound . The government bailed out Chrysler . Where is it now ?

I suspect that many who rail against the machine ;when asked their solution would say the remedy is more of the same. More government intervention . More taxpayer money thrown at problems .

As for my job... I moved to where my job is ;I did not wait for a job to come to me . I was going to settle in the Midwest where I went to school . But there were more opportunities here . I know what I say isn't sugar coated but too many people settle for their condition and then complain that someone else did not provide.

[RubyPitbull]

Tom, I would give you a greenie if I could for that last post.