[Wildcat21]

Change is actually good. You needto learn from your makes. We all change as we age. You can't keep making the same stupid mistakes and end up with the same problems.

You should change how you deal wit hthe opposite sex or you will always get hurt.

[heepr]

Change is actually good. You needto learn from your makes. We all change as we age. You can't keep making the same stupid mistakes and end up with the same problems.

You should change how you deal wit hthe opposite sex or you will always get hurt.

What specifically should I do different?

[Wildcat21]

Learn about woman! Learn that woman are in the bizzaro world - they think very differently than we do.

Worl on yourself - WORKOUT - get in great shape, hang with your friends, work hard at work, hang with your family, hobbies, religion.

Date MORE - meet new woman.

Build barriers - don't fall so fast.

Go to these esites and educate yourself on girls:

www.sosuave.com - read every article.

www.askmen.com - read EVER dating article.

[heepr]

I've been trying to stay busy. She has even commented on it.. Today we hung out for a while, and I tried to keep the conversation funny and lighthearted. It went great for a while. But she ended up asking me if I minded if she went to hang out with the other guy along with some of her friends... She said that "him aside," she would never start anything with anyone else if we were still trying to work things out.. I didn't say anything I shouldn't have but she could tell that it upset me that she's still hanging out with him, knowing that he likes her (and her him, even though she won't openly admit it). She ended up crying again, saying that I was giving her mixed signals and confusing her. Which I'm sure I am..

Being myseterious, busy, confident, and keeping my mind on other things has made her want to see me more than she has in a long time. It was all going in the right direction until she asked me that, and now we're back to the ****ter.

I feel like I'm back in the same place over and over.. Wanting it to work is getting the best of me and I'm falling back into the same problem over and over. If she wants to see me, should I simply refuse? I know she likes both of us, and the advantage he has over me is that no drama and bad memories come up when she is hanging out with him and she can really have fun. Having a lot of fun with him will make him the victor in her heart since women evaluate relationships by a man makes them feel.

I know everyone is going to say I should figure myself out before I try to see her, but I feel like if I pull back entirely, she'll assume that I'm not OK and confident. She may also perceive it as the end of us working things out and start dating him instead. How can I gain complete control of this situation?

[talaniman]

First stop the romance feelings because you're the only one that has them.Second if you can't be friends leave this chick alone,cause if you can't get over this one way love thing you won't be much fun to hangout with.Third next time she wants to hang out surprise her with a date of your own!Fourth Don't ever worry about the competition,never!Fith Stop being so available unless she's buying duhhh!Any questions! :cool: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

[talaniman]

Sixth almost forgot,Don't fall for the tears!:cool: :p

[heepr]

First stop the romance feelings because your the only one that has them.Second if you can't be friends leave this chick alone,cause if you can't get over this one way love thing you won't be much fun to hangout with.Third next time she wants to hang out surprise her with a date of your own!Fourth Don't ever worry about the competion,never!Fith Stop being so available unless she's buying duhhh!Any questions!!:cool: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

I can't just throw away my feelings, poof-- gone.. that's unrealistic. The love isn't one way.. She still has feelings for me too. If it were just not wanting to hurt my feelings as a friend, she would have moved on a long time ago. I do think she still loves me, since she's said it's possible to love someone but not be with them when we were talking about it one time..

We had an exclusive and very serious relationship for over a year. It wasn't just a casual dating open relationship. Starting something with someone else would be the equivalent of giving her permission to do the same. Expressing interest in other women, however, might get her attention..

I do like the "don't worry about the competition" part. I need to remain confident and remember that I'm better than him and have way more to offer. I think 90% of my problem is that I'm worried about "what might happen" rather than just letting things fall into place.

[confused25]

Wow this is a hard one. Well first of all don't worry too much about this other guy. In my opinion she brought him up because she felt she was losing you so she tried to, hate to say it, test you. She may have some feelings for him but it won't work out because she still has strong feelings for you. Basically as long as you remain in the picture this guy will never have a chance with her because she is, from what I gather, using him to get you riled up.

Now how often do you keep in touch with her? You say you have been doing your own thing, so exactly how much contact have you kept? Also can you remind me exactly why you two decided to take a break? What lead to the break up? What is the exact reason for why you two can't be together?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm not exactly sure what to advise so maybe a little background on the situation will give me a better idea on how to help. Furthermore, I also completely understand when you say you can't just make your feelings disappear. However, I honestly don't feel that love should require all these mind games. So just be prepared to accept the fact that you may have to move on for your own sake. But there is still hope it will work out between you two. Keep trying but be prepared for the worst, that way it won't hurt so much if it doesn't ultimately work out.

[Chery]

Dear, one thing I picked up most on this issue is that when you went to check on her and saw the guy there, you changed into the green monster, and she did tell you what he said. Do you really expect her to tell everyone that wants to talk to her to go away and ignore her completely? She has a right, just as you (if you were in those shoes) to talk to anyone anytime, and this was only a few minutes, it's not like she was gone for hours... You are still attached emotionally to this young lady and if you remember the good times, and also the boring times you described, you know what is lacking in this relationship. So, if you do want her back, then do what is right without letting that "I and my green monster own you" into your lives. The reason I left my ex husband after he beat me more than once, was because he would beat me after I talked to the bag-boy at the store - just saying thank you, and have a nice day. There is no way we can change others, but there is always room for improvement in ourselves. If jealousy is getting the upper hand, then you need to be able to assess and control it, and yes, talk to her about it, but give her a chance to be a free person, and let her explain before you think the worst all the time. She does still have feelings for you, which is obvious,(remember her genuine smiles of joy?) and you might still have a chance if you both communicate more, and tell each other what you'd like to have changed in the relationship. What do you really have to lose? Get with her and write down the issues, and then talk about them. If this does not work for the both of you, then it will at least show you some hints on what not to do in the next relationship so that the women and you can benefit from all this. As another forum buddy said, this is all a lesson learned, and if remembered and worked on, it can only improved you for the future. Give her a chance to know that you do feel for her and that she is not the complete idiot for still caring for you, so that you can leave her with her confidence intact, especially if she is not a manipulator (and she does not sound like it to me). Again, you are both still young, don't know what the future will hold, and subconsciously also worry about the stress the entire world is going through right now. So be fair to yourself and her. Part in friendship if you must, and go on with your lives knowing that you both are good people and deserve any bit of happiness you can grab. You sound like a very level-headed young man and I'm sure you believe in being fair to others and hope they are to you, so I'm sure you know what to do. No matter what the outcome or your choices, I wish you both a lot of luck, prosperity, peace and a good future. And don't forget, real friends that know you and stick with you a long part of your life are very rare - when you have one, keep him/her. Again, games are for children, and not needed in a grownup relationship. Love, and belated Happy New Year, Chery

NOTHING IS 100% CERTAIN, EXCEPT DEATH.

[Parvan]

IF your feeling jealousy and a lack of trust it is time to move on. Of course this is probably colored by my recent and still ongoing trip to the hell that is known as a bad relationship, but I really feel that you should be very careful. There is one good sign though. She acknowledges that the shift in the power dynamics of the relationship has changed and is admitting it makes her feel uncomfortable. That actually takes a lot of courage to admit something like that and it shows that she probably has a strong sense of moral fiber. The flip side of that is she might just be in this relationship because you gave her the power and that might be what she needed was to be the powerful person in a relationship Just be very careful and take care of yourself first. Failing to do could end you up in a situation like mine and trust me you do not want to be where I am at right now.

[bizygurl]

It seems to me that this girl doesn't really know what she wants and its probably is because you and her are so young. 20, 21? Your early twenties are suppose to be really finding out who you are and in turn finding out the qualities you want in a person and the kind of relationships you desire. Most people can't really know that unless they date a lot of people, Lets face it if you get seriuosly involved with someone at a young age that doesn't really leave room to get to know a broad spectrum of people and allowing exactly what you want in a person. This is what she may be expirencing. I have no doubt she honestly cares and loves you but she has to make the decision to want to stay and keep up a serious relationship or to remain un attached.

It doesn't seem like she is doing this intentionally to hurt you. But on the other hand she definitely needs to make up her mind on what she wants out of this friendship, relationship she has with you. If she does decide not to carry on a romantic relationship than she needs to move on and not constantly tell you that she's sad that things have changed because that would be messing with your head and your emotions. And you don't need that especially if you still have feelings for her.

But if things don't turn out the way you want them too, move on. It'll be hard but you're a young guy Im sure there are plenty of girls out there who would love to get to know you. At such a young age don't get hung up on one girl, especially one that doesn't know what she wants.

The ball is in her court, so to speak, have a serious talk one more time about this, and if nothing changes move on. The worst thing you could do is act like you still carry a torch for her(even if you do) then she will think she has a hold on you, good luck.;)

[heepr]

Well it's still up and down. One moment it's incredible, and all signs are pointing towards her desire to see me, like when she waits for me in my room for hours while I'm still out with my friends. Other times it appears that she isn't interested, for example when the other guy goes over to her room and hangs out with her and her friends.

I was told by a friend today that he heard it was her that was pursuing the other guy. Of course this is secondhand information, but it is something to definitely consider. He was told that she was the initiator, and the other guy didn't want to do anything "out of respect for the parties involved." She has told me that she has has refused to do many things that the other guy has wanted her to do.. She claims that he is the initiator in all of this. My friend also told me that my other friend's girlfriend walked in on the two of them lying together in her room after I'd gone home for christmas break. That was probably the worst information I've gotten so far, in part because I know it's true. That was over a month ago now.

I've focused on the negatives up to this point. Last night we spent the night together, woke up at 6 for some odd reason and had the best time just laughing.. I could tell she felt great again, and she told me how normal it felt with us. The past few days have been good, so I'm not sure if I want to hit her with another wave of jealousy and accusation right now. It seems like I need to, but at the same time, that's not fun for either of us.

I know responding with anger and jealousy won't accomplish much, but I do know that I need to tell her that I'm not going to tolerate being treated this way.. Should I give her an ultimatum? Or simply ask her about what I was told? Or continue to distance myself and wait to see what happens?

[confused25]

I wouldn't blow up at her about the other guy. It sounds like you have forgotten that you two aren't officially together right now, which means she has every right to see other guys.

Now If I were in your position I would lay all the cards on the table. In my opinon you should have a serious disscussion about your relationship with this girl. Tell her that if she doesn't want to be with you anymore to let you know so that you can move on because you can't handle all these games. Let her know that you really want to be in serious relationship with her and that you are willing to work out the problems while you are both dating. Also if you love her, tell her you do. However if she is not committed then you should move on.

I really don't think you should let these games continue. They are far too childish and painful. Either work through the issues of your relationship together (maybe consider seeing a counsler) or move on with your lives and try dating other people.

[jeffatl]

Ok bud, you need to get out of this situation while you still have your sanity. Tell this girl to figure out what the heck she wants, and call you after she does. What she is going to do is keep you around in case this new guy doesn't work out. That's not fair to you on so many levels. If you let this girl push you around like this and mess with your emotions, she will never stop. Stand up for yourself man. If she wants to date other people, let her. There is nothing you can do to win her back, she has to want to come back on her own. Another reason she might be acting like this is because she is just afraid of letting go, but it doesn't sound like she wants you back too me. I went thought a very similar situation and it did nothing but drive me NUTS. Why go through this anymore? Do you really want someone that is going to play with you like this anyway? Letting go is the hardest part, but the more days that go by that you don't talk with her, the better you will feel. ARG!! Stop doing this to yourself, it is just going to get worse and worse. If you don't want to hear all this crap about her, don't ask or tell people you would just rather not know anymore. Cut your losses here and LEARN from this. You (like me) made this girl way too much of a priority, and now she is walking all over you. The thing is, you WILL look back at this and see how stupid it was but you have to take that 1st step and walk away. STOP chasing, talking, texting, emailing, or whatever. Leave her alone!! If she wants you back you will know, but you are going to have to man up here and let her know you won't put up with this anymore. Do you not see the patterns here, the cycle? Wake up!! I'm not trying to be mean or rude, I just don't want to see another guy go through this crap. You are just setting yourself up for more BS!! :mad:

[bizygurl]

Believe me you don't want a relationship where one minute sh'es interested and the mext she not. A true healthy, loving relationship involves two people who know exactly what they want, there should be no question or doubt in either mind.

I don't really understand this girl, sh'es hanging around other guys and then coming to you for affection like a girlfriend would?
Personally I couldn't have a relationship with someone where I didn;'t know where I stood with the other person, that's insane, and if that person couldn't make up their mind I would have to do it for myself.
The jealosy your feeling is normal because she acts like your girlfriend one minute and then treats you like a buddy the next. It sounds all to dramatic and confusing and who needs that drama when there are plenty of other woman out there who wouldn't do that.

Sweetie, move on! Im not saying don't be friends with her but maybe you guys need to cut the romance and let her have her freedom with these other guys, Would you really waant a girlfriend who is hanging out with other guys and doing god knows what? Maybe at some point you guys can build a relationship but trust me knowing where she's at this point your just going to get hurt in the long run. :(

[heepr]

I took everyone's advice and confronted her tonight about it. I let her know what I'd been told and how I felt about everything. I was prepared to let her walk out the door and tell me she wanted to be with the other guy. I told her flat out that if she felt strongly enough about him, then she should be with him. She responded, asking "don't you think I would have already done that if that were the case?" I said yes. She told me she wants it to work between us and that she loves me. I asked about the cuddling thing, and she claimed that she never cuddled with him, and that they had just been hanging out. He actually cussed her out this past weekend because she hadn't been as responsive to his requests to hang out after I told her that I didn't like them hanging out. When I asked if the two of them had been hanging out a lot behind closed doors, she said no, that almost all of the time it was because her friends and him and his male friends were all hanging out as a group. She asked, "if my friends are going over there, should I not go just because he likes me?" I said that would be ridiculous. She told me that she can't even consider starting something with someone else while we are still involved (in this case, trying to work things out, having all the benefits of being together without the title). I'm thinking I overestimated her involvement and interest in the other guy. I need to at least trust her here.

I then asked her why she didn't want to be together, and she explained that she just wanted us to be able to figure things out before she committed to anything, because it scares her that things might get bad again and we'd have to repeat the whole breakup ordeal that caused her so much pain last time around. It makes sense that she's judging our relationship by how she feels, and she doesn't want to commit to a relationship that's up some days, and down other days when I've asked hard questions and she's ended up in tears. All of her reasons involve us. She told me that he isn't a factor in that decision.

I told her that I understand commitment to be a relationship in which the partners care about each other and want exclusivity. I asked her about that exclusivity, and she agreed that we were still exclusive, even though we're not official at this point. She said that she hadn't thought about it that way, but that she evaluates relationships based on the other person making you feel good more than they make you feel bad. Recently, me asking hard questions and her getting upset has not made her feel good. Lots of her friends have been asking her about our status, which she says frustrates her since it's been up one day and down the next. Those confused, bad feelings may add to her negative sentiment about an official relationship. It seems that she wants to be with me, but doesn't want to have the relationship "fail" a second time. She did say that if everything was going well for a couple weeks, then that would be enough for her to want to be official again. I don't want to pressure her into anything. I feel like we're on the same page for the first time in an while. Since we both still care about each other and if the other guy isn't a factor in her not wanting us to be together, the situation seems to be a little different than I thought it was before when I was afraid to ask the hard questions.

[talaniman]

You mean after 2 months you finally got the lowdown?After all that heart-wrenching drama you finally got what you wanted to hear! Good luck dude Hope you can keep what you got!:cool:

[confused25]

I'm glad to hear that you two finally had a serious discussion. It's good that you asked the hard questions that way there are no more secrets and guessing games.

Basically from the looks of it you two are on the right track to getting back together. Congratulations! You may not have the "official" title but if you look at the fact that you have both decided to be exclusive and that she has clearly stated that a relationship will occur if things go well then, in my opinion, you two are pretty much back together. Now all I can say is don't screw it up. The reason she has been weary to fully commit is because she is afraid of getting hurt. Now it's up to you to prove to her that you are not going to hurt her. The best way to do this is by repecting eachothers feelings. When an argument comes up try to resolve it without yelling. Listen to each other and work out the problems together. Remember to treat her with respect, give her attention when she needs it, listen when she talks, and basically just show her that you love her. In return she will do the same thing.

Furthermore, don't bring up the other guy anymore, trust her from now on, she hasn't given you any reason not too. It was good that you brought him up in your serious disscussion but don't over do it. That will set things back.

Well like I said it looks like things are going to work out for you too. Just remember to learn from the mistakes you committed in the past. Don't pressure her into anything though. Just let things play out on their own. I'm guessing that even though the relationship isn't official you two will be acting like boyfriend and girlfriend a lot more now so the whole "official" thing will occur on its own. More importantly remember to talk through any problems you two have and never lose your cool when things get rough. Communication is absolutely key in any good relationship. Good Luck!

[Chery]

I'm glad to hear that you two finally had a serious discussion. It's good that you asked the hard questions that way there are no more secrets and guessing games.

Basically from the looks of it you two are on the right track to getting back together. Congratulations! You may not have the "official" title but if you look at the fact that you have both decided to be exclusive and that she has clearly stated that a relationship will occur if things go well then, in my opinion, you two are pretty much back together. Now all I can say is don't screw it up. The reason she has been weary to fully commit is because she is afraid of getting hurt. Now it's up to you to prove to her that you are not going to hurt her. The best way to do this is by repecting eachothers feelings. When an argument comes up try to resolve it without yelling. Listen to eachother and work out the problems together. Remember to treat her with respect, give her attention when she needs it, listen when she talks, and basically just show her that you love her. In return she will do the same thing.

Furthermore, don't bring up the other guy anymore, trust her from now on, she hasn't given you any reason not too. It was good that you brought him up in your serious disscussion but don't over do it. That will set things back.

Well like I said it looks like things are gonna work out for you too. Just remember to learn from the mistakes you committed in the past. Don't pressure her into anything though. Just let things play out on their own. I'm guessing that even though the relationship isn't official you two will be acting like boyfriend and girlfriend a lot more now so the whole "official" thing will occur on its own. More importantly remember to talk through any problems you two have and never lose your cool when things get rough. Communication is absolutely key in any good relationship. Good Luck!

I could not have said it better myself! Good for you. As I we say - nothing tried, nothing gained, and am proud you took that step and are reassured now. I bet this makes the both of you feel a lot better and you'll be able to sleep nights without wondering. Good luck to both of you, and keep us posted. The hard part is over, and from now on, you know you can always talk about anything with each other.

Feels good, don't it?

[saan]

I believe that everything happens for a reason. Sometimes we all need our space so that we can apperciate our loved ones when they are not around. Otherwise we take things for granted. If its true love you and your girlfriend will find yourselves together again!!