[firmbeliever]

Firm, pardon my mumbling nonsense below, I tried to backspace and my computer thought I was done :)

I think most of us here are smart enough to know Islam is not "a wife beating religion." Unfortunately, when you get videos like the one by "Dr." Muhammad Al-'Arifi it looks really bad...

I did wonder what you were really trying to say:D

The people that get attention are such and "most" tend to stereotype us and think all of us are the same.

[speechlesstx]

I did wonder what you were really trying to say:D

The people that get attention are such and "most" tend to stereotype us and think all of us are the same.

Yep, it tends to work that way. As soon as a certain someone here got word I was a conservative Christian I became a "right-wing neocon fundamental evangelical fascist bigot" - or something to that effect. :D

[firmbeliever]

Yep, it tends to work that way. As soon as a certain someone here got word I was a conservative Christian I became a "right-wing neocon fundamental evangelical fascist bigot" - or something to that effect. :D

Sadly, I do not even know what that means... limitations of my political knowledge:rolleyes:

[Dark_crow]

As a muslim woman I think I am fairly educated and a lot of muslim women I know are well educated and so are their husbands.

Wife beating is not an Islamic culture, it comes from tribalism, which has been passed down and that the men think it is neccessary to beat their women.

Women are to be respected,husbands and wives are to remind each other of their religious duties and help each other follow the right path.

If Islam is such a wife beating religion, I am not sure what all the women accepting Islam from the West are really seeing in Islam.And these women I am talking about are not illiterate,dumb women,but people with degrees and honours.They were independent and making their own decisions and they choose to follow Islam and even wear the hijab/niqab.

What a shock!Why would they accept if Islam is so bad to its women.

And I would think the people on this thread were a bit more educated than most and not lump all muslim men and women in the same group "wife beaters" and "oppressed" and "supressed"!

Sorry, but Mina Ahadi in my opinion has a great deal more insight into the practice of Islam than you do. You might read what she has been through. As to “all the women converts in America” just how many I wonder has there been?

[firmbeliever]

Sorry, but Mina Ahadi in my opinion has a great deal more insight into the practice of Islam than you do. You might read what she has been through. As to “all the women converts in America” just how many I wonder has there been?

As you consider to be true, believe it!

My post was just to make it clear that me as a muslim woman do not believe Islamic teachings to be oppressive or suppressive towards women.

[Dark_crow]

As you consider to be true, believe it!!

My post was just to make it clear that me as a muslim woman do not believe Islamic teachings to be oppressive or suppressive towards women.

The OP clearly stated…”The brutal suppression of the rights of women in many countries throughout the Islamic world”, I have a bulletin for you, America is not part of the Islamic world and therefore not part of the equation.

[speechlesstx]

Sadly, I do not even know what that means....limitations of my political knowledge:rolleyes:

It means as the Jackson 5 used to sing, "one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch." :)

[firmbeliever]

I am not an American!

[Choux]

Elliot, There can be an increase of lower paying jobs, WHICH THERE IS, while middle class jobs go overseas or disappear!

You don't know what you are talking about.

[ETWolverine]

Elliot, There can be an increase of lower paying jobs, WHICH THERE IS, while middle class jobs go overseas or disappear!

You don't know what you are talking about.

Then why are average salaries increasing both at the national level and the state level? If the only new jobs being created are "low paying" as you say, and if all the mid-level jobs are going overseas as you say, then average salaries should be going down. They most certainly are not.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, average wages nationally have gone up from $15.09/hr. in September 1997 to $18.62/hr in June 2005. (2006 and 2007 data are not yet available). That's a 23% increase in average wages over an 8 year period.

During the same period, the average waiter's salary increased from $4.71/hr to $5.13/hr, a 9% increase.

Average white collar salaries in the same period increased from $18.59/hr to $22.96/hr, a 24% increase.

Average salaries at all levels are going up, not down, as would be expected if the jobs were being outsourced overseas.

Annual Household incomes at every level grew from 1997 to 2004 according to the US Census Bureau.

------------------avg. in 2004----------avg. in 1997---- % change
20th Percentile----$17,984--------------$17,601---------2.2%
50th Percentile----$43,318--------------$42,294---------2.4%
80th Percentile----$86,867--------------$81,719---------6.3%
95th percentile----$154,120-------------$144,636--------6.6%

As you can see, average family incomes at all levels are going up. If mid-level jobs were being outsourced, we would be seeing a decline in family incomes in the middle two categories above. We're not.

Frankly, Chou, you are spouting liberal talking points about which you have zero understanding. You don't know the numbers, you don't have the information, and you have never done the research. Simply put, you don't have the information necessary to determine whether I know what I'm talking about or not. But I do know that you are completely clueless on this subject.

Elliot

[inthebox]

ET:

Using the same data
The 20th percentile increased $383 in terms of absoulute dollars
The 50th percentile increased $1324 in absolute dollars
The 80th percentile increased $5148 in absolute dolllars
The 95th percentile increased $9484 in absolute dollars

In addition the paltry increase in percent of the 20th and 50 th percentiles probably lagged behind the rate of inflation.
So the data can be interpreted as losing economic ground over 7 years for the 20th and 50th percentile households.

One can say that the gains made by the 95th percentile and higher will be taxed at a higher rate, but that same amount of money could theoretically be sheltered in larger retirement plans that the average household,or that money could offset health insurance costs, etc...


Grace and peace

[ETWolverine]

I don't disagree with any of that, ITB. However, when Chou said that mid-level jobs were being shipped overseas, he was just plain wrong, and the statistics prove that. I'm not saying that the gains were big, or even that they outpaced inflation. I'm just saying that they didn't DECREASE, which is what would happen if there was a mass shipment of jobs overseas.

Elliot