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lbrowne · Nov 27, 2005, 07:27 PM

Here's a new pic so you can see what I'm doin:

lbrowne · Nov 28, 2005, 06:34 PM

Cmon speedball1 ! :)

I'm almost tempted to replace this whole apparatus

speedball1 · Nov 29, 2005, 12:47 PM

"I'm almost tempted to replace this whole apparatus"

I think that's a great idea. Ifyou can't open up the lever valve then replace using a regular shut off valve and 2 couplings. Good luck, Tom

lbrowne · Dec 12, 2005, 08:15 PM

I replaced it, the water coming in from the outside source was steady and full stream. Put a nice new valve and the water is still low pressure for hot :(

speedball1 · Dec 13, 2005, 07:17 AM

"the water coming in from the outside source was steady and full stream."

You've just narrowed it down to the outlet side of the heater. If I were there I would start to track the location of the pressure drop down by elimination.
Go to the first fixture the water heater services. Open the hot water. Full stream? Move to the next one in line and try again. Weak stream? Shut the water off and open up the faucet. Now turn the water back on and flush out the line. Full stream now? No? Then the trouble 's between the water heater and the first fixture. To fix this you must localize it. Good luck, Tom

dherman1 · Dec 16, 2005, 07:06 AM

I was bored the other day so I went through all the postings for this issue. It seems that a lot has been done without finding out the cause of the problem. Also, there may be others in the same boat. So... using my computer geek background (I am a business analyst) I put together the following:

Recommendations made so far:

1)Replace HWH as it is near it’s end of life, if not over.

a.Unable to replace at this time.

2)Flush HWH

a.Unsure if done or results if done.

3)Clean out each faucet after flushing tank and while flushing lines to faucet.

a.Unsure if done or results if done.

4)Replace Diptube as it may be either clogged or melted.

a.Unsure if done or results if done.

b.Also, diptube only melts while join is being soldered, not overtime as HWH is not hot enough to melt plastic.

5)Clean out inlets to HWH.

a.In process after discovering it was a ball valve and not globe valve.

Here are some things that could help in diagnosing the problem:

1)Is the CW supply pressure to the HWH the same as it is to a sink?
2)What is the size of the CW supply?

a.To the tub?

b.To a Sink:

i.How do they compare to the HW supply?

3)Is the pressure comparable between the inlet and outlet on the HWH?
4)Is there a change in pressure if the WC is flushed?
5)Are you on City or Well water?
6)Trace CW inlet.

a.What is the first thing to connect to the CW line?

i.If it is NOT the HWH:

1Check the pressure to the incoming side of the point of use (POU) against the outflow.

2Check the pressure to the incoming side of the first POU against the pressure incoming to the HW htr.

ii.If the first unit is the HWH.

1.What is the next unit after the HWH?

2.What is the pressure at that POU?

3.How does it compare to the incoming pressure at the HWH?

7)What is the inlet size to the HWH?

a.Does it reduce from the mainline?

b.Does it reduce after it goes to the HWH?

8)What is the outlet size from the HWH?

a.Is it the same as the incoming?

b.Does it reduce after going to the next POU?

Suggested course of action:
1)Flush HWH and replace the small hosebib with a full flow ball valve

a.If needed, knock loose any sediment using wooden/plastic stick that remains at the bottom of the HWH.

2)Flush out each lav after flushing out the HWH.

a.Remove aerator and turn on water supply to purge lines.

b.After lines are purged of air. Shut off each faucet in turn

i.Remove both H and C control cartridges and clean them

I

i.Turn on supply to the faucet to flush out the lines and then shut off supply.

iii.Replace cartridges

iv.Open supply line and flush lines again.

v.Clean and replace aerators

c.Go to next lav and repeat.

3)Did this resolve the pressure issue?
4)Using the supply diagram from tracing the water supply. (See # 6 in requested info section).

a.Check the pressure on the first POU.

i.How does it compare to the HWH outlet?

b.Check the pressure on the second POU.

i.How does it compare to the first POU?

ii.How does it compare to the HWH outlet?

c.Does opening the CW supply on the second POU impact the HW supply on the first POU?

5)Is there a change in the pressure on the cold side if more than one faucet in use?

a.If you are on well water, this could be a problem with the pump.

b.If city water, there may be a problem with their supply to your house.

Hopefully by now you will either find out where the source of the pressure drop is. And hopefully WHAT is causing it as well.

speedball1 · Dec 17, 2005, 07:35 AM

Herman my man! I like your style! You analyze, and so do we.
All we can do, setting here in front of a key board, while you're up to your hooters wading in a sewer back up is ask questions and rhen draw on our experience out in the field. You say, "Hopefully by now you will either find out where the source of the pressure drop is. And hopefully WHAT is causing it as well."
No Herman, that's not how it works. It works like this. "Hopefully, it will be you that will either find out where the source of the pressure drop is. And hopefully WHAT is causing it as well."
You're going to hafta track this down yourself and about the only way you're going to do it is by the process of elimination.
If you have good pressure coming out of the heater and you track the HW line down fixture by fixture then somewhere along the line you'reb going to run into a pressure drop. That's where you'll find the trouble. I can feel your frustration from here. You get all these suggestions from us
And none of them solves your problem. Frustrating to the max. But at one time every one of these suggestions solved a problem for someone else. That's why we use them. We hope that something that helped someone else with a problem similar to yours will solve yours. Most of the time we're flying blind. We depend on input from the asker to help solve the problem. A"bubble" here or a "gurgle" there is enough to point us in the right direction.
Problems like smells and vibrations that come and go are about the hardest to nail down. Followed closely by complaints such as yours that involves many fixtures that have to be eliminated. I've tried to explain why you have got so many suggestions. We can make suggestion and offer solutions but in the long run it's going to be you that locates the problem and repairs it.
Regards, Tom

Lotta · Dec 17, 2005, 01:06 PM

Simple test.

Your water heater should have a drain valve on the bottom of it. Open the drain valve and see how much pressure it has. If you have full pressure then you are getting full pressure TO the hot water tank and the pressure drop is either as the water is leaving the hot water tank or farther down the hot water line. Watch out the water will be hot. Check to see if the water is full of sediment. Drain the water until it runs clean.

lbrowne · Feb 18, 2006, 03:51 PM

Well I hooked up a hose to the drain and its FULL speed when I open it up. The pressure caught me off guard and it kind of went everywhere haha

I bought another valve and I'm going to install it on the exit side for the hot on the tank. Once I cut the pipe, I have a hose to place over the end of the pipe which I will direct into a bucket. I'll then turn on the water and see what the pressure is like coming out of the tank on the hot side.

When I turned on the drain valve with the incoming water shut off, hardly any water came out - when I turned the water back on the water coming uot wasn't nearly as dirty as I would have expected.

Fr_Chuck · Feb 18, 2006, 04:03 PM

I will agree that it would mostly be in the nipple that is most likely the outlet on the hot water heater. But honestly I know today you have good water, but if you are going to take that loose, the entire tank installation is easy, and I would put a new more energy efficient heater in. ( and wrap it also)

Fixing it now when you can plan it, is a lot better than the next holiday with familiy over and all of a sudden no hot water

lbrowne · Feb 18, 2006, 07:38 PM

Found the problem. The exit of the water heater was all but closed off from buildup. Shaved it away gradually and finally poked through. Ran tons of water through the water heater and into the drain.

Here goes nothing!

lbrowne · Feb 18, 2006, 08:16 PM

ARGH. I can't get the f'n drain valve to close!! It's a stupid plastic type design and no matter how much I try loosening and tightening it won't close all the way. I have a faint trickle coming out. So now I have a hose ran to the tub sink in that's next to the water heater thank god. ARGH, and here I was doing so good!!

speedball1 · Feb 19, 2006, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by lbrowne

ARGH. I can't get the f'n drain valve to close!!! Its a stupid plastic type design and no matter how much I try loosening and tightening it won't close all the way. I have a faint trickle coming out. So now I have a hose ran to the tub sink in thats next to the water heater thank god. ARGH, and here I was doing so good!!!

Hey! No biggie!
Turn the water off to the heater and open a hot water faucet to relieve pressure. You now have two options. You can shut off the power, leave the hot water faucet open and drain the tank. After the tank's drained you can replace the leaky boiler drain with a metal one--or-- you can shut the water off to the heater place a pan under the boiler drain and take the bonnet packing nut loose and unscrew the stem and washer. Pull it out a ways but be ready to return it. The water will gush out the opening flushing the crud caught in the seat out. Reassemble and see if it shuts off now. Good luck. Tom

jpaulda · Mar 19, 2006, 10:51 AM

Your dip tube could possibly be dissolved and all of your aerators on faucets are clogged. It could be that easy.

ejj88 · Mar 21, 2006, 01:38 PM

That is my guess jpaulda. I just went through the same thing he is going through now.
In this case, a little investment into a new HWH would be like a million bucks to him right now.
If the dip tube is partially gone or all gone the a 40 gallon tank is about as good as a 10 or 20 gallon tank.

speedball1 · Mar 24, 2006, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by jpaulda

Your dip tube could possibly be dissolved and all of your aerators on faucets are clogged. It could be that easy.

ejj88's correct when he states, "If the dip tube is partially gone or all gone the a 40 gallon tank is about as good as a 10 or 20 gallon tank."

When you're in the shower you will find the hot water running out quickly if the dip tube's disintegrated. But ejj88 fails to address plastic particles from the dip tube clogging up the intake ports of faucet cartridges as well as the aerators. If, after cleaning the aerator screens, you still have no pressure then the faucet will have to be opened up and cleaned anf flushed.
Regards, tom