[beatlejuice]

Christmas is not ridiculous. Its is a day for us to celebrate the birth of our saviour. It deosnt matter when the actual date was.

[silentrascal]

We are told in Mathew that the wise men found the birth of Christ a cause for rejoicing. Was this wrong of them? Is it wrong to remember a great event and to rejoice and have joy because of it? You say this is ridiculous?

I see no reason to think that just because we don't know the exact date of His birth, then we are forbidden to have a day set a side for all to rejoice over the birth of our Lord.

Let me adjust my statement in a less harsh way... Christmas is simply... not a celebration that the Bible tells us needs to be celebrated. That's it. The Bible tells us that Christ's DEATH is to be celebrated. Why go beyond what the Bible tells us to do by creating a celebration around a birthday in which (1) the exact date for the birth is never mentioned, and (2) the only birthday celebrations mentioned by the Bible are cast in a very negative light, involving the murders of people, including God's prophet John the Baptizer?

That is the way that I view it. I view the Bible in that everything contained within it, and the manner in which things are written down, is done so for a reason. There is no reason not to give thought to what Jesus Christ did for us by laying down his perfect life on the stake; in fact as Christians we're to exercise faith in that sacrifice, and how could we if we're not reflecting on it every day? But his birth, while necessary, isn't why he was sent to this earth. It was his sacrificial death in which lies the importance for all of us.

[beatlejuice]

At that just illustrates the ridiculous ignorance people have about Jehovah's Witnesses. The ONLY celebration that the Bible commands Christians to observe....and I'll say it again, the ONLY one is that of Jesus' death. NOT his birth. His death. So if you're going to make some kind of attack on a faith, at least try and have some accuracy in it. The date of Jesus' death, Nisan 14, is well-known and documented. Why would God have seen to it that that's the case? Because that's what we're commanded to observe. The date of Jesus' birth, however, is neither commanded for Christians to celebrate, nor is the date of it given at all. In fact, the only 2 mentions of birthday celebrations in the Bible are cast in a very negative light, and both times they involved someone's murder, the second incident being the murder of John the Baptizer.

I Just have a problem with some of the non biblical things Jehovah's Witnesses believe as well. I am sure you do not see a significance in celebrating Christ since you bellieve He is not God but he is a created being, a servant, just one step above an angel. That is not biblical. Jesus is as much God as the father and the Holyspirit. Jesus is the Great I AM. He sits on the throne, seated on the right hand of the father.

[silentrascal]

I Just have a problem with some of the non biblical things Jehovah's Witnesses believe as well. I am sure you do not see a significance in celebrating Christ since you bellieve He is not God but he is a created being, a servant, just one step above an angel. That is not biblical. Jesus is as much God as the father and the Holyspirit. Jesus is the Great I AM. He sits on the throne, seated on the right hand of the father.

Actually everything Jehovah's Witnesses believe is soundly based on the scriptures. For example, in both Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14 (BIBLE SCRIPTURES) it very clearly states that Jesus had a beginning and that he was created. Jesus having a beginning shows right there that he cannot be God. But... we're getting off the topic of the post.

[Synnen]

At that just illustrates the ridiculous ignorance people have about Jehovah's Witnesses. The ONLY celebration that the Bible commands Christians to observe....and I'll say it again, the ONLY one is that of Jesus' death. NOT his birth. His death. So if you're going to make some kind of attack on a faith, at least try and have some accuracy in it. The date of Jesus' death, Nisan 14, is well-known and documented. Why would God have seen to it that that's the case? Because that's what we're commanded to observe. The date of Jesus' birth, however, is neither commanded for Christians to celebrate, nor is the date of it given at all. In fact, the only 2 mentions of birthday celebrations in the Bible are cast in a very negative light, and both times they involved someone's murder, the second incident being the murder of John the Baptizer.

Funny thing about that, though... Christians generally celebrate Christ's death not on a particular day, but on the first Sunday (or Monday, depending on where you are) following the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.

Which is the pagan celebration of Oestre--a fertillity celebration.

Most saint days are the days of their death--not their birth.

However--the history of the Christian church (the one that MOST people recognize, anyway, including pagans like myself) pretty much says that Christian holy days (read that as holidays if you like) were observed on pagan holy days--for two reasons. One was because, as was said, early Christians were persecuted for their religion, and observing their holy days on another religion's holy day made it safer. The second reason was to convert people--if you could say "hey--that's my holiday too! let's celebrate it together! And look--it wouldn't hurt anyone if you SAID it was about Jesus, would it?" it tended to convert people pretty easily.

[silentrascal]

funny thing about that, though....Christians generally celebrate Christ's death not on a particular day, but on the first Sunday (or Monday, depending on where you are) following the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.

That is because the Jewish day of Nisan 14 never falls on the same particular day of the week. You have to go by the Jewish calendar in determining the time frame in our modern time that corresponds to the same time on their calendar. It is always celebrated on Nisan 14 after sundown.