[Ramesees]

There are some other posts that show a couple of issues I have been dealing with and raising, not sure they are insightful to this one or not.

My wife and I have been married for 15 years (together 20) and have 2 kids, 11&7.

Background:
We have recently been through a few issues with the marriage and worked through them, generally we lost touch with each other, which led to lots of tension, dissatisfaction, upset and stress. We have worked this out over a few months and it hasn’t been this good in years, we seem happy, visibly, emotionally and do so much more with each other.

However! My wife seems almost resistant to saying she loves me or showing any sort of emotion.

Now I guess we started like most couples, lovey and showing it in many ways, after 20 years some of that lovey approach has waned and I guess it could be expected to.

(This is not about the physical relationship, that is how it has always been and we are both happy).

Since we have resolved a lot of our issues, I have felt ‘In love’ again and enjoy expressing it to her, saying it, giving her things that show I mean it and most of all making sure I listen and understand her. But throughout all of this she has shown very little emotional contact with me and openly says she won't say it ‘all the time’, she hasn’t said it to my knowledge in years. Part of the concern/issue I have is she also doesn’t really express it in any way either, so its not that I feel it but don’t hear it, anything that occurs is instigated by me.

We have discussed this and she just says she isn’t that sort of person, that she doesn’t need to say it or show me and I should trust her that she does love me. I have actually told her I am unhappy with this part of our relationship, she seems unaltered by that.

I made the mistake of actually suggesting to help the issue (and settle me a bit) she get me something that shows her love that I can keep, before I finished the sentence she went off her head, ranting about trust and how odd I am. It wasn’t very reassuring, and yes I know I am looking for reassurance.

Am I wrong to need to feel love, whether that be said or action?

I have definitely changed my attitude toward ‘Us’, I spent many hours reading posts, reading books on counseling and marriage guidance and made some dramatic changes to my approach to be ‘more about we than me’. With those changes came my expressing love more and so maybe its me expecting too much, but I need it so what do I do.

[talaniman]

I can only suggest you focus more on family dynamics, and responsibilities, and put a lot more time into your kids, as you seem to have developed many insecurities, and that tells me that there is something your afraid of.

Whatever it is at the root of all your issues, until you discover it, don't be so needy, and more independent. This isn't about your relationship at this time, but in your actions, and what you focus them on.

Do you have hobbies, and friends, outside of work?

Often we husbands get ignored for the kids, as they require much attention, and have an emotionally needy husband is stressful, and annoying.

I know you have needs too, but there is only so much to go around when you have a few kids in the mix. They ALWAYS come first. Men are expected to endure, and keep it moving, so look around, and see what around the house needs your attention, and stay busy being man, and not be seen as one of the kids.

That's how I handled my own fears, when it seems nobody cared about my needs, and seemed I was always put last. Good clean man fun will change your attitude, perspective, and outlook.

[tamme]

It has been proven... smoking kills and second hand smoke also kills.
It's not that maybe it might, its documented!!
Stay on her about quitting if you love her.

[Alty]

It has been proven....smoking kills and second hand smoke also kills.
It's not that maybe it might, its documented!!!
Stay on her about quitting if you love her.

Did you know that too many potatoes can kill you too? Oh, and salad, the pesticides used to grow them, deadly, after a long time.

The fact is, it's her body, and no one has the right to tell her what to do.

Did you read the other posts? The marriage is not going well, if he pushes her, as you suggested, she may well walk out the door for good.

Bad advice and nothing to do with the actual question. :(

[Gemini54]

We have recently been through a few issues with the marriage and worked through them, generally we lost touch with each other, which led to lots of tension, dissatisfaction, upset and stress. We have worked this out over a few months and it hasn’t been this good in years, we seem happy, visibly, emotionally and do so much more with each other.

From what you say, your relationship does seem to be improving, but for some reason your insecurity radar has gone into overdrive. Your wife smoking, her relationship with stay-at-home dad, her lack of overt love/emotion it all seems to be getting to you.

It's just a suggestion, but might she be seeking release of her tensions else where (smoking, conversations with stay-at-home dad), because life is too intense with you?

It may be that you are expecting too much, or that you talk about it too much, or that you're hypersensitive about the quality of your relationship because it's been problematic in the past.

Can you back off, and give her (and yourself) some space? I agree with Tal, you do sound emotionally needy and perhaps you would also benefit from putting some energy into physical activities.

If the relationship is improving, then focus on enjoying it rather than analyzing it. Worrying won't change anything - but perhaps if you make a really strong attempt to put your fears on the back burner for a while - take it on a day by day basis - things will improve and you'll feel less anxious.

[Ramesees]

Firstly, I really appreciate the comments and feedback, it is why I am here.

As my threads were combined, here’s an update on 2 and question.

On the smoking, I’m sorted, have managed to put it way away in my head, not causing any issues or tension.

On the Needy love/emotion, still an issue but have accepted I get what I get and the ‘change’ in expectation me not my wife, so its my problem and I need to accept, so generally not causing any tension.

Then we get the stay home dad!

I generally have been able to accept the companionship angle, it helped me understand to see the comments, makes sense. However, a little issue for me is explained in the example yesterday.

The H1N1 flue and my daughter with CF obviously don’t want to meet! so when my other daughter got a confirmed case of H1N1(or we suspected at the time confirmed later when she had recovered!) we isolated her and took much effort to ensure she didn’t catch it. So yesterday, when I get a phone call from a friend saying the stay home dads daughter had suspected H1N1 I fully expected that the reaction would be to keep them apart. That seemed to be the case, my wife changed plans and disrupted many things it appeared.

Then in the evening I called my wife to ask if I needed to make the kids dinner, they had been at soccer, she is with stay home dad at McDonalds with his kids, and my kids!

This really, really annoyed me, we spent so much effort on keeping my daughter with CF apart, then she, in my opinion because she wanted to be with stay home dad just ignores the facts and goes out.

Its fair to say that the conversation when she finally got back wasn’t a very positive or productive one, I told her calmly but quite obviously what I thought of her putting my daughter with someone who was ill and also told her why I believe she does it, she is obsessed. It went on for a while and she go angry that I reacted in a negative way and that I am ‘not over it’, her and stay home dad that is, I feel pretty crap now, but having slept on it, I still think its true.

Btw, I don’t believe that the CF daughter should be isolated from H1N1, that was my wife’s idea which I supported, we have dealt with CF for years and this is no different than any other flue, but she seems to have changed track when it suits, that’s the issue. I need to be with xxxx I will compromise my position to make that happen.

Now I know I am needy and agree with most comments posted about me, but is this me or unacceptable? Because I am struggling with what appears to me to be more than a want to be with a friend, she seems to need to be with him.

[SVImager]

Women feel no attraction toward men seeking their validation.


What is your ethnicity and your wife's ethnicity?


Listen Ramesees... From reading your posts... She is cheating on you. All the signs are there.

All these other stuff are unimportant and just symptoms of her guilt and imbalance in her life. You can confront her, but it will get you nowhere. You have to be a Mature Man about all this.

The Secret Affair is eating at her and it is effecting you and your family and your relationship to each other... this situation will implode on itself, given time.

You have a choice to make... to stay with her at this moment of weakness or to leave and let her self destruct from relationship to relationship.

To Stay is a harder and tougher path.
To Leave is easier for you, but your kids will have consequence that will be pass on to them.

To Stay... you are not going to Change her... you have to Change yourself to becoming a Man, a better Man. NOT someone who gives in to her. This doesn't mean being an A-hole or a Jerk or controlling... IT is complicated for me to explain. It is better for you to read "Ways of a Superior Man" by David Deida.

To Leave... get yourself a Private Investigator and a Lawyer.

This situation is as much as your fault as it is hers.
You are an enabler, unbeknownst to yourself.
When someone is a Hammer, the other will be the Nail.
When someone is a Teacher, the other will be a student.

Either Path, you would still need to read that book I mentioned... because it will help you understand women and thus start your dating life again.


BTW, I was in your shoes two years ago.
I was in a 16 year marriage with two girls.
I was a Nice Guy and a Chump... I gave in to my wife going out without me , etc. I had to change me... It is still a rough path, but my kids will be better for it. It does get better... but it will be painful and has to hit bottom.

Read the Book than learn how to be the Price and find a Passion a Goal in life that is not her. She will eventually find you appealing again. The stay at home Dad is just another diversion (it could've been another guy), the problem is your marriage and all her stuff: smoking, boredom, lost of respect, lost of passion for you... stems from you not being a Man and filling that ROLE as the Man. Read the book on how it is done. It is NOT about being a JERK. Good Luck and God Bless.

[s_cianci]

Obviously this is an issue for you. Often, when under stress, people will use smoking as a form of "self-medication" to try and alleviate the stress. Of course, the relief is only temporary and once the initial perceived benefit wears off, there's the addiction factor to consider. And nicotine is a highly addictive substance. I wouldn't make her feel guilty for smoking ; after all, it's not like she's doing anything illegal. But I would encourage her to quit and assure her that you'll give her whatever support she needs to accomplish this. There are therapies that can successfully break the addiction when properly administered by a physician. The good news is that she's only been doing it for 6 months so she shouldn't be "hopelessly hooked" already. And I agree that she should not be doing it in the presence of your daughter who has cystic fibrosis.

[Gemini54]

Although there is some truth to what SVImager says, I don't necessarily agree that your wife is having a full blown affair. An emotional affair, an obsession, a release from being with you, perhaps. But, I do agree that regardless of what it is it is eroding your family situation and yourself confidence.

Taking back your power and your masculinity makes sense. But it's easy for someone else to say. The thing is, how do you actually do it?

I wonder if you would benefit form speaking to a counselor on your own - I can't remember if this is actually already happening in your relationship.

It seems to me that you feel dis-empowered and helpless to change anything at this point in time. Speaking to an objective outsider that can assist you to work on your confidence and reduce your neediness might help.

[SVImager]

Hi Gemini... You might be right... it might not be a full blown affair.

BUT, if his instinct is telling him there is an affair... more than likely he is right.

Whether it is a sexual affair or an emotional Affair (no sex, just confiding in each other)... it is the same pain. The Emotion Affair is harder to get over with than the sexual affair part of the cheating, because it is the Lost of Trust and companionship.

My Advice... You are torturing yourself... put an end to the Emotional Relationship. Very Important, Read the Book first so you understand WHY you are doing this and What is the Psychology behind this position. This statement worked for me, "I Love You, I don't Need you or anyone else.. I will make it without you." Google, "CR James" his ebook and material. (I read a lot after finding out my wife's affair).
Having a divorce is not the end of the world... Life goes on and different challenges are ahead. Have her choose you and the family OR this other Man.

Cheating is a falling the edge of a Slippery slope. By confiding with the other man, she is playing on the edge. Every thing is stacked to push her over the edge to be involved with this man. You have to somehow put a stop to it... but she will eventually find something or someone else.

You have to figure out what is the thing or things causing her to go on the edge. If you ask her, she wouldn't know what it is. Or she would tell you the wrong thing because she doesn't really know what is the real problem. The only thing you can do is Fix yourself/change yourself. And Hope things will fall into place.


My situation: Took me Two years to get where I am today... My wife is laughing with me. We hold each other again. During the Affair, she didn't laugh with me... very judgmental with everything I did do... etc. Maybe my solution is only for me, since I am looking through the reflection of my own situation.

I hope the best for you.

[Ramesees]

As an update:

I am certain this is not a full-blown i.e. physical, may be false hope but I don't think so.

We had our first proper argument for a while the other night!

I went over to friends for a beer, got chatting with him then his wife, his wife is another best friend of my wife's. She started talking, ironically about the H1N1 issue I mentioned before in the post and how she could not believe my wife did that. She then said 'I don't understand why your wife cannot say no to him' well this got me in a tailspin, her best female friend just underlined my feelings.

So I went home festering, she started asking what we had done all evening, I started telling her and we ended up in a full blown regression to old/bad times and argued about the stay home dad situation.

The good news is that we managed to stop, split for half an hour and then meet by the fire pit and talk calmly over why I had got so upset over a comment by her friend. We went at length through an 'emotional affair' what constitutes an emotional affair and where she was with stay home dad relative to this. Without knowing she basically acknowledged it, the potential for an emotional element to their friendship, then the penny dropped and she realized what I was saying rang true. She also in words, again without really knowing, confirmed that she did not need that now we were getting on.

The long and short of it is that an awful lot of my insecurity and concern disappeared the moment I saw she 'got it', now time will tell in her actions whether she really did get it, first signs are good. I don't expect her not to be best friends with stay home dad, in a way I think having such a good friend is a good thing for her, but I think she needs to redefine the boundaries of that friendship to be appropriate for 'Us' and I actually think she believes that too. We will see.

[Cat1864]

I really and truly hope this will be the beginning of a new chapter in your marriage.

Good luck.

[SVImager]

Ramesees... Good Luck.

What country are you from?

[Ramesees]

There is another post talking about a stay home dad issue I have.

Threads were merged with this one.

(combined threads but its in there)

As an update, things have been going OK.

We have been working together on the stay home dad issue (generally me working on my acceptance to be honest, she really hasn't changed that much, doesn't feel there is anything she needs to change), it still gets me, the slightest little things makes me annoyed over it, I am very sensitive to the time my wife spends with him, I know that, but I have been controlled, I ensure I don't drink when I feel upset so I don't have a loose tongue etc.

2 nights ago we had quite a deep conversation, somewhat driven by my wife and it was good & positive, not about anything confrontational, just talking about things, our progress and the stay home dad issue. During this she made a very clear statement that the next day she would not be seeing him. Now I can honestly say that if she was seeing him next day, it makes no difference overall because she sees him everyday anyway, so I said I was surprised but she was adamant and positive.

So last night:
As I was in a 'happy' state of mind, I had been out with a friend earlier and had a few drinks, felt very good when my wife picked me up.

Things were pretty good, getting set for a night with each other when one of my daughters starts telling me about her (the daughters) day. It turned out that my wife had seen him twice in the day, picked his kids up and then met at the stables and spent some time there, this was all planned as she admitted. Said she just didn't think about it the previous night.

All sounds trivial I know, but I don't know how to explain the context of the conversation of the night before.

I tried to raise calmly my annoyance, but got a response of 'I didn't see him apart from' I tried to explain 'my issue' and she just wouldn't get it, I got angrier and angrier and my loosened tongue kicked in and then just blurted out some horrible accusations that haven't been said for 6 months. That she cheated, that she was cheating etc. She then got really angry (understandable), I slept in the front room and we are in some trouble I suspect. I have apologized (did it as soon as I said it as I realized) asked her to forgive but she is very angry.

I realized through the sleepless night that for those comments to come out, albeit in beer fueled anger, they must be in my head! Right?

So now I am all confused. My actions have probably set us back a considerable way but I am confused as to why I have this still in my mind. Any ideas what I should do, I feel like crap.

[Jake2008]

I'm sorry that the relationship with the stay at home dad, hasn't stopped or let up.

Why it keeps going around in your head, is because she is not adequately explaining the relationship to your satisfaction. You have doubts as to her being truthful, and clearly she hides facts that indicate she has something to cover up.

I do not see her reluctance to counselling, and I can only think that she is digging in her heels, and has no intention to modify or stop the relationship she has with this neighbour.

That should tell you something. If she cannot attend counselling (I read your other post and she has said no to that) you are either going to have to go yourself, or accept things as they are.

You are both at opposite ends on this issue, and something has to give.

Have you ever met this guy? His wife? Ever consider having them both over for dinner?

[Ramesees]

Quick answer is yes, I have met him, partied with him, drank with him and talked with him.

We (He and I) have had a massive (4 hour) argument then discussion on the facts of the relationship (about 5 months ago) that went into some detail about why I was where I was, suspicious etc.

If I assess him (and I am pretty good at reading people, reactions, intents etc). I would say he is pretty self-centered, demanding on my wife BUT does here when things are said.

If I stand back and look at it, I would not be sure that he knows there is still an issue, not defending him, but when we had the 4 hour ‘discussion’ mentioned above he did change for a while and I suspect that where we are now is because he thinks it’s all OK. Just little things I here and see, tell me that the ongoing issues we have (that center), do not get to him. My wife is pretty clear, he’s my best friend and I better not say something that makes it uncomfortable!

Just for amusement’s sake and ironically supports a little of the above statement, here’s last night!

I have decided to go T Total for a while to ensure my underlying feelings are not expressed in any way I don’t want them to be. So last night I took my staff out for dinner, didn’t drink, my wife came with the kids, all went well.

At home, went to bed together (I was surprised due to the bust up previous night), then she gets a text, about 12:15 AM. I just said if your going to text him your not doing it in here, so she got up and went to the kitchen. I started to go to sleep. About 15 minutes later, she came in got into bed and woke me. She asks ‘where is your cell’, so I handed it to her off the bedside table. She then went through my texts! Now I don’t really care, my text life is boring! I asked her what are you doing that for? Turns out she thinks I have texted stay home dad (when she left the bedroom) to tell him to not text so late. Apparently he went silent on text halfway through conversation, that’s about as 180Degrees opposite as it could get, her checking my texts! I just said perhaps his wife has said he can’t text you and went to sleep.

Txting so blatantly (which she knows annoys me), in our bed (which I just won't accept), then elsewhere (getting up to go do it) then accusing me of texting stay home dad and checking my records, I am starting to give up on it, she just seems totally inconsiderate, or doesn’t care, time will tell.

[talaniman]

Yes time will tell if you both can define your boundaries of good behavior, and mutual considerations for each others feelings. Good move though, recognizing that a loose tongue causes a lot of problems, and doing something about it.

Right now you have to be patient while she rethinks her actions and attitudes, and makes the right adjustments.

[Gemini54]

At home, went to bed together (I was surprised due to the bust up previous night), then she gets a text, about 12:15 AM. I just said if your going to text him your not doing it in here, so she got up and went to the kitchen. I started to go to sleep. About 15 minutes later, she came in got into bed and woke me. She asks ‘where is your cell’, so I handed it to her off the bedside table. She then went through my texts! Now I don’t really care, my text life is boring! I asked her what are you doing that for? Turns out she thinks I have texted stay home dad (when she left the bedroom) to tell him to not text so late. Apparently he went silent on text halfway through conversation, that’s about as 180Degrees opposite as it could get, her checking my texts! I just said perhaps his wife has said he can’t text you and went to sleep.

Txting so blatantly (which she knows annoys me), in our bed (which I just won't accept), then elsewhere (getting up to go do it) then accusing me of texting stay home dad and checking my records, I am starting to give up on it, she just seems totally inconsiderate, or doesn’t care, time will tell.

The phones should be in the kitchen for a start, not the bedroom. Why do you need to have them in the bedroom with you?

Anyway, sounds as if his wife is cracking the $hits now.

I do think she is totally inconsiderate, but your reaction of sleepy indifference was well done.

[Jake2008]

Had to spread the rep Gemini, but I am beginning to think that all parties concerned deserve each other.

Nobody is willing to give an inch, the bad behaviour continues, cell phone texts continue, suspicions all the way around, crossing of boundaries, disrespect, childish reactions... It all sounds like Desperate Houswives to me.

Nobody willing to change thinking or behaviour. It's all really childish and frustrating that four adults cannot behave better.

[Ramesees]

Jake,
I read a lot of the posts on here and your responses, so respect.

I agree it’s like a soap opera, however, not sure what I have not done here:

• Accepted smoking (and yes I had to decide to accept it even though I don’t like it).
• Accepted a relationship with another man that annoys and upsets me and put things in place to allow me to deal with it.
• Stopped all suspicious behavior on my part, I do nothing now.
• Stopped asking questions in a probing and accusational way.
• Stopped looking for reassurance and ‘love’ for my insecurity.
• Decided to stop drinking to prevent any preventable arguments.
• Spent 6 months trying to get a message over that WE matter.

Not sure what else I could/should have done, go for it if you have ideas.

And Gemini, Peyton place, just had to wiki it to see what you are referencing!