[inthebox]

A liberal is perfectly capable of saying that he or she should do something and yet will not do so; the conservative... is already moving as soon as the word "should" is pronounced.

- Bruce Fleming.


Terrorism occurred during the Clinton administration. It escalated and everyone agreed it was bad, but Clinton did nothing.
9/11 happened and President Bush did something about it, confronted terrorism for the evil that it is, and thank God, another 9/11 has not occurred.





g&p

[tomder55]

Besides, do you really think that, as bad as our interrogation techniques may be, we aren't still infinitely better than our enemies in our treatment of POWs

We have a long way to go . Everyone forget Nick Berg already ?

Bill Roggio describes how the Taliban operates :
Taliban desecrate body of slain opposing tribal leader - The Long War Journal
The leader of the tribal resistance was killed and two of his aides were beheaded last weekend after the Taliban overran the region controlled by the opposition.

After Samiullah was buried, the Taliban returned, dug up his body and hanged it in public. The Taliban made an example of Samiullah and those who oppose Fazlullah's rule.

It goes back long before Jackson

Yeah I know ;but Jackson was fresh in my mind because I'm in the middle of reading 'American Lion: Andrew Jackson in the White House'.

[excon]

Everyone forget Nick Berg already

Hello again, tom:

More evidence of your belief that we should ACT based upon who THEY are - not who WE are.

I DISAGREE. That ISN'T who we are as a nation... It NEVER was who we are, and it NEVER will be who we are. I don't understand how you missed that.

Frankly, a belief in tit for tat is no better than the Taliban...

excon

[tomder55]

Did I say that I wanted a tit for tat response ? No I did not . But from a tactical point of view ;our winning hearts and minds is far less effective than their terrorizing hearts and minds . We will not defeat them with tea and crumpets.

[tomder55]

Turns out the office of the President-elect is having 2nd thoughts about restricting interrogation techniques to those codified in the Army Manual . He is willing to entertain some CIA secret techniques . I guess the issue is not as black and white as it appears.
Print Story: Rollback on Torture? Not So Easy for Obama and the Dems - Yahoo! News

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

It IS black and white if you don't WANT to torture. It's grey if you do.

excon

[450donn]

Most of congress should be in jail for allowing what is happening in our country today to occur. I am not bashing one party. I said most of congress. Along with the heads of the major lending institutions who are raping the "bailout" of millions to line their own pockets.
As far as torture is concerned. Lets put into prospective a bit.
Lets say your daughter was raped and murdered. You found someone who knows about what actually happened and who did it. What would YOU do to get the information? Remember now there is no police in this scenario, just you to gather the information, find the culprit, and carry out punishment.

[excon]

Hello again, 450:

Of course, you point out the Jack Bauer theory of torture... But, it's full of holes if one thinks about it a bit...

THAT'S the problem. We DON'T think about it very much. We just REACT.

And, that's the very reason why we, as a society, give the power to punish to the state. One hopes the state would act WITHOUT emotion.

Course, THESE guys don't think much. Cause, in the example above, how do you KNOW that you found someone who knows what you want to know? Did somebody tell you? If they did, go ask him? How would HE know, anyway??

Of course, the answer in your scenario, is you DON'T KNOW that the guy you're about to torture knows anything - you only THINK you know.

excon

[450donn]

Did not say I would torture them I asked what YOU would do in this case?
Personally I will do what ever it takes to ensure the safety of MY family. And in my example above I would do only as much as necessary to gain the information I needed to take me to the next step.
That could mean water boarding ( not torture) sleep deprivation ( not torture) or it could mean that I feed him only food that is forbid by is religion to gain the information. Remember in my scenario I am the judge and jury and excutioner.

Unlike most of the koolaid crowd I have actually been in war. It is not pretty, people die every day. Burning to death is a horrible method of killing people, but War is Hell. But in a War you do what ever is necessary to achieve victory. Otherwise there is no reason to go into battle.

[excon]

Hello again, 450:

I think you missed what I said. You usually do.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

Did not say I would torture them I asked what YOU would do in this case?
Personally I will do what ever it takes to ensure the safety of MY family. and in my example above I would do only as much as necessary to gain the information I needed to take me to the next step.
That could mean water boarding ( not torture) sleep deprivation ( not torture) or it could mean that I feed him only food that is forbid by is religion to gain the information. Remember in my scenario I am the judge and jury and excutioner.

Unlike most of the koolaid crowd I have actually been in war. It is not pretty, people die every day. Burning to death is a horrible method of killing people, but War is Hell. But in a War you do what ever is necessary to achieve victory. Otherwise there is no reason to go into battle.

You don't think waterboarding is torture?

I don't understand why when people have made themselves very clear your answers boil down to disrespect and "Well, what would YOU do?," followed by some impossible and usually illegal scenario.

Please define torture for me.

[excon]

and in my example above I would do only as much as necessary to gain the information I needed to take me to the next step.

Hello again, 450:

I ask you again, how do you know the guy HAS the information you need?? I submit, that you don't. Period, plain and simple.

Oh, and by the way, I've been in a few battles mydamnself - koolaid and all.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

Hello again, 450:

I ask you again, how do you know the guy HAS the information you need???? I submit, that you don't. Period, plain and simple.

Oh, and by the way, I've been in a few battles mydamnself - koolaid and all.

excon

Well, you know what they say - War is Hell.

[tomder55]

Please define torture for me

The crux of the problem . Some would say making a prisoner uncomfortable is torture. Others like me say that waterboarding ;the most extreme interogation technique used (and on only 3 terrorists )doesn't meet the definition of torture. Others like me say it doesn't come close when compared to... oh lets say the mutilation that was done to the Jews by the jihadists in Mumbai before they were executed .

Like I said "the office of the President-elect " is having a difficult time adequately defining what crosses the line.

[excon]

Hello again,

If you want to torture, as this president and his supporters do, you could just redefine it. And, they did. If you didn't want to, the definition is clear.

excon