[Dark_crow]

DC,

Ahhh!!! so we get to Spitzer's real intention... state revenue in the form of license fees.

And you are right about your second point too... who wants to pay for the ability to identify oneself as an illegal when you can do it for free without a government-issued ID card? And who would pay for car insurance when they can get away without paying for it because they are illegal?

Who would buy what they can get for free?

Elliot

This brings into question the fairness of the "wet foot/dry foot" policy which provides that any Cuban who sets foot on dry US land has a right to a green card. Actually, Mexicans and nationals from a host of other countries have long cried "foul" on this discriminatory policy.

[Ash123]

I am still studying this issue. I am not xenophobic. And history has shown that a nation with closed borders is not a vibrant one... Where dollars go and how is always a hot button issue.

As we all know the line from “The New Colossus,” by the nineteenth-century American poet Emma Lazarus is etched at the base of our own statue of liberty. It's held us in good stead: "Give us your tired, poor, huddled masses..." many illegals, as well know, don't do the jobs many americans would even want to do. They have all not come here just to party - but to work... and that has economic value.

There's 12 million of 'em. And it seems that one group that is hurt the most by them is:

HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUTS.

Yep. They oughta tar and feather those hard working son of a guns coming over the border... Why?

Most economists agree that the wages of low-skill high-school dropouts are suppressed by somewhere between 3 percent and 8 percent because of competition from immigrants, both legal and illegal. Economists speculate that for the average high-school dropout, that would mean about a $25 a week raise if there were no job competition from immigrants!

Other than them, I would like to have a documented American public. And it appears the White House is going that way with amnesty. But I just don't view it as a crisis... Like say my tax dollars going somewhere else (Iraq) for reasons still unclear.

For one day in Iraq, we could (CONSERVATIVELY) cover the healthcare of over 256,000 American children. Probably more like 400,000. Depending on if you think we are spending 300 or 700 million ($500,00/minute) a day in Iraq.

I think requiring documentation is practical. As for insuring an illegal... Perhaps they oughta stick to bicycles until they get a card and a license :-)

[excon]

My goal is to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the USA. Working to do what?

Hello again, El:

It depends. I don't disagree with you you. If your goal is to stop illegal immigration, then giving them drivers licenses isn't a good idea.

But, if your concern is highway safety, then one could argue that having a license and being insured IS a good idea.

Last I checked, the governor works for the STATE, not the feds. If MY governor worried more about enforcing federal laws at the expense of my states citizens, I’d throw the bum out.

You and tom sound exactly like someone who's never been hit by an unlicensed and uninsured illegal. Hmmmm. One of your righty friends HAS been hit, and now he's not so sure about that stuff.

It's true. You guy's live with your head in the clouds.

excon

[tomder55]

DC

I'm sure Spitzer and co would've started ironing out a plan for the illegals to wave the fees. NY State has motor voter laws . It was his and the Democrats intentions to get as many illegals enfranchised as they can .

Now ;let's say I get plowed into with an illegal who has a license... does that mean the illegal is insured ? What does this illegal forfeit under Spitzer's plan ? A phony license ? This illegal was driving around before this licensed was issued and if the illegal lost the license what would prevent this illegal from driving again?. nothing !

This whole issue is a canard for the true reason Spitzer and Hillary had that I mentioned above .

[Dark_crow]

DC

I'm sure Spitzer and co would've started ironing out a plan for the illegals to wave the fees. NY State has motor voter laws . It was his and the Democrats intentions to get as many illegals enfranchised as they can .

Now ;let's say I get plowed into with an illegal who has a license ...does that mean the illegal is insured ? What does this illegal forfeit under Spitzer's plan ? a phony license ? This illegal was driving around before this licensed was issued and if the illegal lost the license what would prevent this illegal from driving again ? .....nothing !

This whole issue is a canard for the true reason Spitzer and Hillary had that I mentioned above .

Tom, I believe voter fraud was at the heart of the matter.

Interestingly enough, “The city of San Francisco will offer ID cards to all residents, including illegal immigrants. The announcement comes just as New York State is backing off a proposal give illegal immigrant's access to drivers licenses.”

The purpose, according to them is to make “services available to people without identification”. It will be interesting to see if that includes the right to vote.

NPR : San Francisco to Offer Illegal Immigrants ID Cards

[ETWolverine]

Hello again, El:

It depends. I don't disagree with you you. If your goal is to stop illegal immigration, then giving them drivers licenses isn't a good idea.

But, if your concern is highway safety, then one could argue that having a license and being insured IS a good idea.

Wouldn't getting rid of illegal drivers be a better solution than just handing them licenses? Stop illegal immigration and deport the illegals who are here, and the problem of illegal immigrants driving suddenly becomes a non-issue, doesn't it. In essence, by handling the illegal immigration problem, we will also be improving traffic safety. Two birds with one stone.

Last I checked, the governor works for the STATE, not the feds. If MY governor worried more about enforcing federal laws at the expense of my states citizens, I’d throw the bum out.

What about a governor who tries to enforce his own personal agenda at the expense of 72% of his citizens? How do you feel about that guy? Personally, that's the guy I's want to throw out. On the other hand, a Governor who follows the law instead of trying to follow a personal agenda, especially when following those laws is the desire of more than 70% of his constituents... that seems to be a guy worth keeping. Following the law AND the desires of your citizens? That's a rare opportunity to please everyone. (Except the illegals, of course. But then, if they don't bother following our laws in the first place, why should I give a $h!t what they think?)

You and tom sound exactly like someone who's never been hit by an unlicensed and uninsured illegal. Hmmmm. One of your righty friends HAS been hit, and now he's not so sure about that stuff.

Did you read all of Steve's post? If I remember correctly, he said that the LAST thing he had on his mind was "Boy I wish this guy had a drivers' license". Would a drivers license have prevented the accident? Would it have made the guy who rear-ended Steve's wife a better driver?[/quote]

It's true. You guy's live with your head in the clouds.

Better than living with it buried in the sand, ignoring the overwhelming problems caused by illegal immigration, and hoping that a drivers license will solve those problems. At least we want to attack the problem at the source... the ability of illegals to get across the border in the first place.

You are looking for band-aid solutions for problems that need major surgery. Your band aids don't work. Amnesty, legalization, granting de-facto citizenship... these aren't effective solutions to the problem. They didn't work when the Marielettos came over. They didn't work when the Colombians came over. And they aren't working now either. It's time to try enforcement rather than appeasement.

Elliot

[excon]

Wouldn't getting rid of illegal drivers be a better solution than just handing them licenses? Stop illegal immigration and deport the illegals who are here, and the problem of illegal immigrants driving suddenly becomes a non-issue, doesn't it....... It's time to try enforcement rather than appeasement.

Hello again, El:

Like I said, you guys live with your head in the clouds. I suppose in the cloudy world you live in, deporting 10 - 15 million people WOULD solve the problem.

However, in the REAL world where I live, that ain't going to happen.

I'm interested in discussing REAL world problems with REAL world solutions... But that ain't happening here. You guys are just blinded by your hate of anybody who breaks the law - even if it's a law that you would break yourself. And I DO mean blinded.

excon

PS> Ok, I guess I need to spell it out again.

IF your family was hungry, and the only thing separating you from the help wanted sign on that distant hill is an imaginary line in the sand, you'd cross that line. Yes, you would. I know it, and YOU know it.

But, maybe up there in the clouds...

[Ash123]

The world is easier to deal with in black and white... especially if we are fearful or insecure.

[speechlesstx]

Careful there, ex. Yeah, I have mixed feelings over it now, but in about the past 5 years I've been hit twice by uninsured drivers, one was clearly a legal resident, so it's 50-50. We got deadbeats on both sides of that fence. And still, I do not know for sure if this woman was legal or illegal, I only know she was Hispanic, spoke little English and had no DL or insurance. - but she did stick around for the police and was issued 3 tickets. And then promptly tried to file on MY policy for her damage, lol.

Moving on, did any of you catch Kucinich at the debate last night? He was working his base. Blitzer asked "Do you support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants?"

KUCINICH: I take issue with your description of people being illegal immigrants. There aren't any illegal human beings. That's number one.

(APPLAUSE)

KUCINICH: Number two, they are undocumented. I believe that the best way to do it -- thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

I believe the best way to deal with this is cancel NAFTA and renegotiate the trade agreement with Mexico.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: Let me re-phrase the question, Congressman.

If undocumented people in this country should be able to get driver's licenses...

KUCINICH: You give people a path to legalization, and then they can be legal and have their driver's license. That's the way to work it.

BLITZER: What about in the absence of comprehensive immigration reform?

KUCINICH: You know what? You give people a path to legalization and you work to make sure that you don't criminalize their status any further. Again, I take exception to the way you framed that question.

Didn't he mean, "You give people a path to documentation, and then they can be documented?"

The rest of the exchange:

EDWARDS: If we don't have comprehensive...

BLITZER: In the absence of comprehensive immigration reform -- doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon -- do you support driver's licenses for illegal immigrants?

EDWARDS: No, but I don't accept the proposition that we're not going to have comprehensive immigration reform.

(APPLAUSE)

What I do support, and what I will do as president of the United States, is move this country toward comprehensive immigration reform. And anyone who's on the path to earning American citizenship should be able to have a driver's license.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: Senator Dodd?

DODD: Well, it's important to put it in context. It's obviously -- look, clarity is important here. The American people, in a debate like this, want clarity here. Certainly, the whole idea of getting immigration reform is something I strongly support.

But I believe part of our job is to discourage those who want to come here -- I understand why they want to come, but coming illegally creates serious problems -- four to 500,000.

BLITZER: So, is that a yes or a no?

DODD: No, my belief is that giving a -- as I've said in the very beginning here, I think drivers' licenses are the wrong thing to be doing, in terms of attracting people to come here as undocumented.

BLITZER: All right. Thank you.

Senator Obama, yes or no?

OBAMA: Yes.

BLITZER: OK.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: I'll tell you, I am going to be fighting for comprehensive immigration reform, and we shouldn't pose the question that, somehow, we can't achieve that.

I believe that the American people desperately want it; that's what I'm going to be fighting for as president.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: Senator Clinton?

CLINTON: No.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~

BLITZER: Governor?

RICHARDSON: Well, my answer is yes, and I did it. You know why? Because the Congress, and I notice Barack mentioned the president, but the Congress also failed miserably to pass comprehensive immigration.

RICHARDSON: And we need to have it in this country. I did it four years ago. My legislature sent me a bill. I signed it. My law- enforcement people said it's a matter of public safety.

What we need is public safety, a reduction in traffic fatalities. We wanted more people to be insured. When we started with this program, 33 percent of all New Mexicans were uninsured. Today, it's 11 percent.

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: Traffic fatalities have gone down. It's a matter of public safety. States have to act when the federal government and the Congress doesn't act. The answer is comprehensive immigration. The answer is...

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: The answer is -- secure the borders, a stronger relationship with Mexico. Those that knowingly hire illegal workers...

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON:... should be punished. And a path to legalization. That is the solution.

BLITZER: Senator Biden?

BIDEN: No.

(LAUGHTER)

There you have it, the Dems final answer on the issue. Hillary finally decided no - for now. And what does Dodd mean by "I think drivers' licenses are the wrong thing to be doing, in terms of attracting people to come here as undocumented?" Are we supposed to be attracting people to come here as undocumented?

[excon]

Are we supposed to be attracting people to come here as undocumented?

Hello Steve:

What? You want ME to tell you what they mean?? I was watching Heroes, or the Dance thingy... or I was sleeping on the couch. Watching a politician politic bores the crap out of me.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello Steve:

What? You want ME to tell you what they mean??? I was watchin Heros, or the Dance thingy... or I was sleepin on the couch. Watchin a politician politic bores the crap outta me.

excon

excon the politics mon,

Heck yeah, you are the all wise sage amongst us, 'splain it to me. :D