[ScottGem]

YouTube - Tribute to Those Killed by CIA Atrocities

You do realize that what's on YouTube is all submitted by people with an agenda, Its all slanted.

[inthebox]

I’m sorry your logic is so severely and fanatically flawed Wolverine. You’re saying because terrorism existed by some people before the United States was born, this means that anything that the United States has ever done or will ever do, cannot possibly contribute to any form of terrorism. Are you serious when you make these types of conclusions? This isn’t even logical.
YouTube - Tribute to Those Killed by CIA Atrocities

It’s as if some fanatic telling me, “Duckling, you realize that you cannot say Germany had anything to do with oppressing Jewish people, because the Hitler regime arrived in the 1900s, yet Jews were being oppressed in 1500 B.C by the Egyptians”.

WHAT?

Wolverine, I hope I have shown you how twisted and faulty your logic is. I realize that you want to stop terrorism, as do I, but your approach is dangerous and flawed. The American people are tired of it. I’ve got to run, but trust that I’ll take you on another day ;)

Your you tube link:
I wonder who picked out Enya as the background music :)
Anyway - this is the impression I got. US bad and responsible for all deaths, even though they were NOT directly committed by the US.
For example :

Vietnam US military kills - no mention of who the communists NVA killed.
- here's a charming NVA technique
Punji stick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The video blames the US for the Kymer Rouge? The US fought against Communism remember.

Pinochet in Chile - did the cia participate and tell him who to kill? Or is this blame by association.

Shah in Iran, he did the killings. Would we have been better off with Iran under USSR?

Afghanistan; USSR invaded them, if the Soviets sustained casualties that was their decision.

Iran- Contra. Yes fubar.

Iran-Iraq war. They killed each other. US suplies both sides. Agreed. Not good.

You might even include recent Ethiopia -Somalia events in there.



I'm not saying that the US is pure and innocent, there are atrocities committed by this country [ slavery, merican Indians for example ].

Thankfully, we the citizens hold our own accountable. For example Haditha, Abu Ghraib.



Now

Research what Mao, Pol pot, Stalin, S Hussein have done. Also,

Will you hold terrorists for accountable for homicide bombings, beheadings, etc..

[ETWolverine]

I’m sorry your logic is so severely and fanatically flawed Wolverine. You’re saying because terrorism existed by some people before the United States was born, this means that anything that the United States has ever done or will ever do, cannot possibly contribute to any form of terrorism. Are you serious when you make these types of conclusions? This isn’t even logical.
YouTube - Tribute to Those Killed by CIA Atrocities

It’s as if some fanatic telling me, “Duckling, you realize that you cannot say Germany had anything to do with oppressing Jewish people, because the Hitler regime arrived in the 1900s, yet Jews were being oppressed in 1500 B.C by the Egyptians”.

No. It doesn't mean that Hitler had nothing to do with oppressing Jewish people. But it does mean that Hitler is not responsible for creating anti-Semitism any more than the USA is responsible for creating terrorism. They pre-existed both. What Hitler was guilty of was acting on that anti-semitism and taking it to new heights never before seen in human history.

But your example is flawed. Unlike Hitler, who was guilty of performing genocide, the USA really hasn't done anything to the Muslim fundamentalists. The USA has been the VICTIM of Muslim terror, not the perpetrator. Hitler was a perpetrator.

A better example would be to try to say that just as Hitler did not create anti-Semitism, so too OBL and Al Qaeda did not create Islamic terrorism. That statement would be true. But that is not evidence that we had anything to do with it. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Another example would be to say that just as the Jews did nothing to deserve the genocide of the Holocaust, so too the USA did not do anything to deserve to be attacked on 9-11 or any of the other terrorist attacks of the past 40 years.

WHAT?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Wolverine, I hope I have shown you how twisted and faulty your logic is. I realize that you want to stop terrorism, as do I, but your approach is dangerous and flawed. The American people are tired of it. I’ve got to run, but trust that I’ll take you on another day ;)

My logic isn't flawed. Trying to link the actions of the USA to those of Hitler is flawed logic. The USA was the victim of the Islamic terror that pre-existed the USA. Hitler was a perpetrator, not a victim.

And what the American people are tired of is doing NOTHING about Islamic terrorism while terrorists are free to attack us. What Americans are tired of is a bunch of political hacks and "scholars" who think that if they can come up with reasons that the Muslims should like us, that they will suddenly start liking us. Sorry, but that has never worked.

Furthermore, the point that you have missed completely in this discussion is that some Muslims attack other people regardless of the socio-political-economic status of the Muslims in question. They are terrorists regardless of anything that someone does or doesn't do to them. You are still trying to blame Islamic terrorism on the actions of the USA in oppressing Muslims, but history proves that some Muslims are militant regardless of whether they are oppressed or rich. That is the point you are missing. They attack without reason. They attack because their scripture tells them to according to their understanding. There is no way to get around that point.

If the USA had never existed and never been involved in Middle Eastern affairs, these fundamentalist Muslims would STILL be attacking those around them for no other reason than they believe G-d told them to. The fact that there is a USA simply gives them a nice juicy target. But that is the ONLY reason that the existence of the USA effects them.

I'm sure you'll try to take me on another day. The result will most likely be the same. You'll still be wrong.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

I just want to clarify Elliot's response in case someone misunderstands. Elliot is not condemning all Muslims or Islam as a religion but just those extremists who do believe that if you are an infidel you need to be wiped out.

That is correct. That is why I used the words I used in my posts... "fundamentalist sect" and "some Muslims" and "according to their interpretation". I am being very careful of who I accuse. My enemy isn't Islam, but rather Islamofascist terrorists and their supporters.

Elliot

[BABRAM]

That is correct. That is why I used the words I used in my posts... "fundamentalist sect" and "some Muslims" and "according to their interpretation". I am being very careful of who I accuse. My enemy isn't Islam, but rather Islamofascist terrorists and their supporters.

Elliot

Awhile back one of the posts dealt with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict via a given opinion expressed in an article. I agreed with the article and responded that the Palestinian people should stop listening to their leadership. I do want to make it clear that I do care for all people regardless of ethnicity, religion, etc... However I do reserve my total disdain for the "some Muslims" and those of "fundamentalist sects" that have challenged the gift of life and try to make our planet a living hell.

At my employment there is a department that handles our Middle Eastern clientele. Somewhere around seventy percent of those clients I end up helping since I'm in credit. I kind of know what to expect, being that I'm Jewish, although very Americanized, the culture doesn't come to me as surprise. Most of the Mid-Easterners have a born negotiators mentality and if you deal with them on those terms you usually do well on the business aspect. I'm guessing but I would say that sixty percent or higher, when here in the States try to mimic or acclimate to American culture, even when visiting as tourists. I think Elliot sees as many tourists and businessman from outside the States in NYC (Manhattan), as I do in Vegas. So there again for the most part they are just regular people, no different than many of us.


Bobby

[tomder55]

Ron Paul will not disavow his Neo-Nazi supporters according to this report by Andrew Walden of 'American Thinker ' American Thinker: The Ron Paul Campaign and its Neo-Nazi Supporters

Paul's campaign relies heavily on MeetUp sites to organize. Over 61,000 Paul supporters are registered on MeetUp as compared to 3,400 for Barack Obama, 1,000 for Hillary Clinton, 1,800 for Dennis Kucinich and only a couple of dozen members for most other candidates.


On the white-supremacist Vanguard News Network, Williams links to Paul's "grassroots" fundraising site and organizes other racists to "game You Tube" to advance a specific Ron Paul video to the top of You Tube's rankings. Writes Williams, "Everybody here can do this, except bjb w/his n*gg*rberry." Holland points out, "BJB" stands for "burn Jew burn". BJB's internet signature is, "Nothing says lovin' like a Jew in the oven."


Williams is not Paul's only supremacist supporter. "Former" KKK leader (and convicted fraudster) David Duke's website White Civil Rights, calls Ron Paul "our king" and cheers while "Ron Paul Hits a Home Run on Jay Leno Show." Duke also includes a "Ron Paul campaign update" and plugs Ron Paul fundraising efforts. These articles are posted right next to articles such as "Ten reasons why the Holocaust is a fraud" and "Germans Still Remember their Historical Greatness"-featuring a map of Hitler's Third Reich at its 1942 military height, just in case anybody doesn't get the point. Apparently "Dr. Paul's positive agenda for freedom" is attractive to those who ape the world's worst tyrants and genocidaires.