[talaniman]

That's great for a small country with little or no diversity, but I wouldn't trust their banks at all. I don't trust American banks, but we are a HUGE vast diverse country.

[paraclete]

Maybe size is important, maybe not, you were an insignificant little country when your system was devised, and you are still trying to use the same system now you have risen to be great and populous. Switzerland on the other hand has kept their nose out of the affairs of other nations, is governed by plebesite, and their banks are trusted.

I don't like the idea you think big is better, diversity can give you something, but if all the stupid people gathered one place, diversity would not produce prosperity. My nation was a much better nation before diversity became the mantra

[talaniman]

Yes Clete size is important, and I have made that point many times without implying bigger is better. Just look at the nations like India and China and imagine their problems spreading finite resources to so many people.That was my whole argument. I can take your point of our system needs to change with the times, and we have in many regards, but old ideas of governance when faced with a growing population die very hard indeed, and some just don't like those changes. A matter of time though as it's virtually inevitable as us oldsters yield to the energy of the youngsters growing up.

Swiss banks are notoriously secretive and protective of their clientele, and cater to anyone with enough money from dictators to dynasties looking for a safe secretive haven for loot be it ill gotten, or not. You must have one of those swiss bank accounts and we know you're not a dictator, or dope dealer.

I think the mark of a great nation is in how they treat the least among them, and care for their children, the sick, and the elders. Obviously we fall short, and the animus toward immigrants leaves a lot to be desired, considering all the people here, but the slaves and native Indians, are immigrants themselves. We all know the cruelty those groups endured and still do to a large extent. I really have to remind you that Australia shares those traits with us,except for the slave trade thing, so be careful of the rocks you throw. A perfect example of old ideas being hard to change.

You can still be better as you grow though Clete. Nobody's perfect so save me the old make the country great again spiel. That's right out the Dufus's playbook.

[paraclete]

Yes Clete size is important, and I have made that point many times without implying bigger is better. Just look at the nations like India and China and imagine their problems spreading finite resources to so many people.That was my whole argument. I can take your point of our system needs to change with the times, and we have in many regards, but old ideas of governance when faced with a growing population die very hard indeed, and some just don't like those changes. A matter of time though as it's virtually inevitable as us oldsters yield to the energy of the youngsters growing up.

Swiss banks are notoriously secretive and protective of their clientele, and cater to anyone with enough money from dictators to dynasties looking for a safe secretive haven for loot be it ill gotten, or not. You must have one of those swiss bank accounts and we know you're not a dictator, or dope dealer.

I think the mark of a great nation is in how they treat the least among them, and care for their children, the sick, and the elders. Obviously we fall short, and the animus toward immigrants leaves a lot to be desired, considering all the people here, but the slaves and native Indians, are immigrants themselves. We all know the cruelty those groups endured and still do to a large extent. I really have to remind you that Australia shares those traits with us,except for the slave trade thing, so be careful of the rocks you throw. A perfect example of old ideas being hard to change.

You can still be better as you grow though Clete. Nobody's perfect so save me the old make the country great again spiel. That's right out the Dufus's playbook.

Tal let us reason together, when I visited China I didn't observe distributing resources to be much of a problem, familiar up market stores could be found in many cities, Road and rail criss crossed the nation. Now the subcontinent is obviously a different problem, but the Indians are a resourceful people, can't say the same for their Muslim neighbours.

I don't think your younger populations, or mine either, are going to change the system because it is in the hands of the older, richer, population. You have a sore point whenever it is suggested the system might be the problem, and I think this might be because you have been indoctrinated from birth, it is subtle but it is there, us, not so much.

We really try not to be cruel to the indigenous, Tal, but the reality is they want hand outs and to do nothing for it. Their latest is they want their own house in parliament, this from people who have over 200 languages and who never got on in the natural state. Like we are going to be taking advice on running the nation from them, sarcasm obviously

Your Donald is out there touting making america great and all that, and I have to tell you, it is offensive, because we know it is a beggar my neighbour policy once again and frankly we have had enough. Now he says america will stick up for itself. You have made enemies, there is a reason for that. Until you clean out that swamp and truly are governed by the people, for the people, it is hard to take what comes out of there seriously

[talaniman]

Tal let us reason together, when I visited China I didn't observe distributing resources to be much of a problem, familiar up market stores could be found in many cities, Road and rail criss crossed the nation. Now the subcontinent is obviously a different problem, but the Indians are a resourceful people, can't say the same for their Muslim neighbours.

I'd love to reason with you, but when you make observations on a vacation to the best of a tourist trap about a country I hardly can consider that a serious argument about how well they're countries are doing. There are millions of Muslims in India who strive to thrive among their fellow Indians, so can we dispense with that religious crap you like to peddle? Hard to reason with a person whose objectivity is colored with INDOCTRINATED prejudices.

Yes they are resourceful, so are the Chinese and Indonesians but decidedly poor in VERY large countries. That's a lot of poor folks. Religion has so little to do with state of a nation.

I don't think your younger populations, or mine either, are going to change the system because it is in the hands of the older, richer, population. You have a sore point whenever it is suggested the system might be the problem, and I think this might be because you have been indoctrinated from birth, it is subtle but it is there, us, not so much.

Of course those youngster are our future, just as we were the future for those that came before us. Just because the loony right has come in and sold out the people for the movers and shakers and money makers is but a small part of the equation. The system IS the problem, and does need reforms that reflect good will and NOT MO'MONEY! It's a conflicting highly adversarial situation for sure but we have been through these before and gotten through it just fine, but don't for a minute think your people are not as indoctrinated as mine are because everybody in every country is struggling with whatever system they live under. NONE are perfect and we all have issues to deal with, and things to improve on.

We really try not to be cruel to the indigenous, Tal, but the reality is they want hand outs and to do nothing for it. Their latest is they want their own house in parliament, this from people who have over 200 languages and who never got on in the natural state. Like we are going to be taking advice on running the nation from them, sarcasm obviously

LOL, glad you are TRYING not to be cruel (Just highly dismissive, judgemental like you have been indoctrinated to be!)). People being represented in the government is the very tenant of any democracy, sarcasm aside. You may think you are a democracy, or republic, but denying a seat at the table of any group is not an example of either. We do it too, so hold your water, and have a multitude of tricks and traps to keep people from having their vote and government actually doing the will of the people.

Your Donald is out there touting making america great and all that, and I have to tell you, it is offensive, because we know it is a beggar my neighbour policy once again and frankly we have had enough. Now he says america will stick up for itself. You have made enemies, there is a reason for that. Until you clean out that swamp and truly are governed by the people, for the people, it is hard to take what comes out of there seriously

We both agree that the Dufus has screwed up everything he touches in a very loud offensive way. That' what con men do, but we'll see what becomes of him. Stay tuned or get popcorn and Netflix and manage your own life.

[paraclete]

I'd love to reason with you, but when you make observations on a vacation to the best of a tourist trap about a country I hardly can consider that a serious argument about how well they're countries are doing. There are millions of Muslims in India who strive to thrive among their fellow Indians, so can we dispense with that religious crap you like to peddle? Hard to reason with a person whose objectivity is colored with INDOCTRINATED prejudices.

I did not go to China to visit the tourist traps Tal I travelled through the country in a way most tourists wouldn't think of and I can't remember seeing tourists except for Macau and Hong Kong

Yes they are resourceful, so are the Chinese and Indonesians but decidedly poor in VERY large countries. That's a lot of poor folks. Religion has so little to do with state of a nation.

It is not religious Crap to observe that some people are not as industrious as others and there might be a underlying reason for it. Religion has a great deal to do with the state of a nation, it underpins the way people think

Of course those youngster are our future, just as we were the future for those that came before us. Just because the loony right has come in and sold out the people for the movers and shakers and money makers is but a small part of the equation. The system IS the problem, and does need reforms that reflect good will and NOT MO'MONEY! It's a conflicting highly adversarial situation for sure but we have been through these before and gotten through it just fine, but don't for a minute think your people are not as indoctrinated as mine are because everybody in every country is struggling with whatever system they live under. NONE are perfect and we all have issues to deal with, and things to improve on.

Tal we have a different ethos, we don't indoctrinate our children in school in the way you do. We are not struggling with the system, we don't have this great class struggle going on. Now I know yours has historical roots, you do have bigger minorities than we do

LOL, glad you are TRYING not to be cruel (Just highly dismissive, judgemental like you have been indoctrinated to be!)). People being represented in the government is the very tenant of any democracy, sarcasm aside. You may think you are a democracy, or republic, but denying a seat at the table of any group is not an example of either. We do it too, so hold your water, and have a multitude of tricks and traps to keep people from having their vote and government actually doing the will of the people.

No one is denied a seat at the table, Tal, our recent problems with citizenship should demonstrate that. There are indigenous members of parliament both declared and probably undeclared. We don't prevent people from voting, voting is mandatory. Our recent plebesite demonstrated that the government sought and implemented the "will" of the people, even though it wasn't my preferred option you don't see me crying about the outcome. Universal health care is the will of the people and maintained, Tax cuts are the will of the people and regularly implemented. You think we are like you, but we never tore our country apart to establish our democracy

We both agree that the Dufus has screwed up everything he touches in a very loud offensive way. That' what con men do, but we'll see what becomes of him.

On this we can agree

[talaniman]

Oh Clete, slow down, as most nations have had bloody conflicts with themselves to establish how they are ruled, well the OLDER ones have, and you are a young upstart. I applaud you for what you have done so far, but you started conquering the people because you needed a place to live just like any immigrant, and claimed sovereignty just like any conqueror in history has.

We can argue history, but even that doesn't makes your nation any better than any other. So keep living and building, because you ain't the top dog just another dog in the pack. There are a lot of bigger dogs in the world. And with the same sarcasm a you displayed about taking advice from your minority, and apply that to you giving US advice about our nation.

All groups INDOCTRINATE their members either in religion, culture, or traditions, and yes even prejudices too! Be grateful for where you are.

[paraclete]

Oh Clete, slow down, as most nations have had bloody conflicts with themselves to establish how they are ruled, well the OLDER ones have, and you are a young upstart. I applaud you for what you have done so far, but you started conquering the people because you needed a place to live just like any immigrant, and claimed sovereignty just like any conqueror in history has.

We can argue history, but even that doesn't makes your nation any better than any other. So keep living and building, because you ain't the top dog just another dog in the pack. There are a lot of bigger dogs in the world. And with the same sarcasm a you displayed about taking advice from your minority, and apply that to you giving US advice about our nation.

All groups INDOCTRINATE their members either in religion, culture, or traditions, and yes even prejudices too! Be grateful for where you are.

Yes Tal I am grateful for what I am, I am also grateful for what I'm not. You think we are upstarts just because you started to populate that continent a little earlier than we did this one. I note your relationship with the indigenous peoples was disaster just as ours was and for the same reasons

You see Tal you don't want anyone to see through the illusion. I don't want to be the top dog, some bull mastiff, I settle for being a samoyed, white, feisty but everyone's friend and a citizen of the world

[talaniman]

It's no illusion Clete, and I accept the human history that marks our evolutionary path. Few can claim a unique approach to problem solving, that's why we are still trying to solve problem that span generations, decades, and centuries. I think you said it best when you offered GOODWILL as a benchmark. The problem is that GOODWILL doesn't always translate to monetary policy, or sovereignty. Never has, except in a few small countries that strive to evolve beyond their flaws in this area.

Even they haven't solved the problems, just eased some of the pain of existing.

[paraclete]

The problem is that we have to have countries at all, but people have to belong somewhere and we all suffer from this eternal movement of people searching for that somewhere. Just today they raised the spectre of too much immigration here, pour in a few more bodies and the economy bounces, not a tax led recovery, we will have to coin a phrase for it, perhaps kabab economics, because they will all make a living selling kebabs to each other. On this basis Europe should be booming, so should the US. But I expect it explains our depressionless economy

[tomder55]

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand is a phony . Where was she when Bubba was abusing,assaulting ;and raping women all those years ? She was a Clintoon support ;especially for Bubba's primary enabler ;Evita. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand only recently stuck her finger in the air and decided this was a winning political issue . Yeah ;pretty much that is all the Dems will have once they cleanse out all their miscreants in positions of power . They don't have collusion ;they oppose economic growth and giving back taxpayers their own money . So all they have left is the fact that herr Donald is a pig . Good luck with that .

[talaniman]

He is a pig, and a diet cokehead.

[paraclete]

So all they have left is the fact that herr Donald is a pig . .

Hi Tom, where you "bin", I revel in the fact you have discovered the truth

[tomder55]

I never supported him . I voted for Cruz in a write in ballot . But this is about the phony Gillibrand who unfortunately is the Junior Senator from my dysfunctional state .

[talaniman]

LOL, Cruz is my dysfunctional junior senator from a great state. Ain't life funny! 8/

[paraclete]

Distopian dillusions

[tomder55]

LOL, Cruz is my dysfunctional junior senator from a great state. Ain't life funny! 8/

let's trade Jr Senators . Cruz for

Gillibrand

.It will take away some of the sting that I'm getting my butt kicked by you in fantasy football.

[talaniman]

Move to Texas and pay no state taxes, and I could say howdy neighbor. 8D Bring the family, we got plenty of room. We could sit up at Buffalo Wild Wings and suck Texas Tea, the best BBQ in the world, and plot, plan, dream, and scheme of fantasy domination (While we watch ALL the games hehe!) every weekend!

Come get some of this Texas air Tom, or just come get Cruz. :) Kicking butt in the losers ladder pales in comparison to the rarified air of championships, but that doesn't mean I stop kicking. LOL, I got my butt kicked pretty good in round 1 after missing the cut for the final 4 by a lousy game ;( !

Politically speaking Cossacks (Ukrainians) and cowboys have much in common and would never ride shirtless like Vlad the Invader.

[tomder55]

oh I won't be retiring in NY . Can't afford the rent they call property taxes here on what my retirement income will be (my property tax is currently $ 11,000 + a year) . I consider Texas one of my options . Cousin Redleghunter is there .

Are you sure you want the liberal locust immigrants from the North to invade Texas ? Keep in mind that when they escape liberal states and tax policies ;they often bring that mindset with them .That's what's happening to Virginia now.

[talaniman]

I've lived in Red States my whole life, and get along well with conservatives for a bleeding heart liberal. Quiet as it's kept we have a lot more in common than our ideological differences. Listen to because as I'm sure he has told you about good easy living for us older people. If I remember right he is 70, 80 miles south of me in the heart of the Texas Triangle. I have a lot of peeps in Va. And they seem to be thriving.

I've lived in the Midwest on Lake Michigan and you just can't beat the weather here. You just have to fit in and learn to say HOWDY. Right or wrong we are definitely a state of laws and have PLENTY of immigrants from the north and south because there is plenty of work for anybody and good schools too.

I'm a fiscal conservative Tom, but I have a lot of kids to feed, and elders to take care of. I retired from work, not life. I can get really riled by anything or anybody that impedes that. LOL, the red states will be purple soon enough and no doubt we will keep thriving. The Emporer left the Dufus in GREAT shape if he doesn't blow it like repubs have been known to do.

Pendulums swing like pendulums do.