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DrJ · Jul 31, 2007, 10:49 AM

Hmmmmm... I think the church should focus on the bigger problem of getting rid of all the pedophile church leaders before even attempting to take a stand on this positition

Canada_Sweety · Jul 31, 2007, 10:57 AM

You're right, but for some reason if we tackle the slightly less important issues, more gets done? <-sarcasm of course.
Getting rid of the pedophiles (church leaders or members) should be our number one task within our chuches. But on an over all basis I think is meant, because the church leaders influence sooo many people and set an example.

DrJ · Jul 31, 2007, 11:13 AM

I find it strange that someone that possesses this quote:

"God Loves all People from all Nations. That being the case, why and what right do people have to hate one another?"

would have such a strong feeling toward this.

Is a homosexual not qualified to teach the Word of God? Whether you believe they are living in sin is one thing. But then again, show me a man who does not live in sin? They are few and FAR between.

How deep should the church dig into someone's personal life to ensure that they are NOT living in sin? Should the church set up secret scenarios to make sure someone isn't a pedophile? Or secretly gay? Or just to ensure they don't have a lustful eye? Or to ensure that they do not approach a woman during her time of uncleanliness? Or..?

Canada_Sweety · Jul 31, 2007, 11:20 AM

Whoa now... I can see where you're coming from. But you're kind of right which i didn't want to admit because I try debating things when I don't believe them. But as far as I know as Christians we are suposed to be more understanding. And a strange way of looking at it taht jsut popped into my head is:
If love can teach someone of itself then why can't the word of God do it too?
I hope that makes sense to more people then just myself.:p

DrJ · Jul 31, 2007, 12:25 PM

Makes perfect sense. Obviously, there is no one worthy of such a true position... and yet, the higher up the ranks you go, the more unworthy they become.

So where is the line drawn? At the one section where many religious heads focus the worlds attention... which most likely is to keep the world from seeing far worse truths?

Canada_Sweety · Jul 31, 2007, 12:28 PM

Oh my... you're totally right and making me think. But that's where a God loving Christian becomes a stuck up Christian... when they are wanting to make the church look good more then to face true everyday issues.

Hope12 · Jul 31, 2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by DrJizzle

I find it strange that someone that possesses this quote:

"God Loves all People from all Nations. That being the case, why and what right do people have to hate one another?"

would have such a strong feeling toward this.

Is a homosexual not qualified to teach the Word of God? Whether or not you believe they are living in sin is one thing. But then again, show me a man who does not live in sin? They are few and FAR between.

How deep should the church dig into someones personal life to ensure that they are NOT living in sin? Should the church set up secret scenarios to make sure someone isnt a pedophile? Or secretly gay? Or just to ensure they dont have a lustful eye? Or to ensure that they do not approach a woman during her time of uncleanliness? Or.....???

************************************************** ************************

"This should not be strange at all. I love the person but I have some of the things they do. "We can separate the two things. God hate when we sin and yet he does not hate us. So my quote is honest, I hate no one. I do though hate what God hates and he hates the act of homosexual conduct and I am to hate what God hates. I though never would hate the person, just their actions.

Have a good evening.
Hope12

DrJ · Jul 31, 2007, 04:57 PM

Well put. Agreed.

But why is it JUST homosexuality? As I said before, why not investigate further into someone's life before ordaining them?

Im curious to know how people that hold this belief would react after learning that the minister that has led your church for YEARS, the minister that has helped you grow to be the best Christian you can be, the minister that has reached out to so many suddenly exposed the truth that he was gay and had been hiding this from both his wife and his church.

Would all those years just negate themselves?

Marily · Jul 31, 2007, 10:09 PM

Dr Jizzle true christians that have the life of Christ inside them ( Holy Ghost) sin no more, because it is not the person that lives anymore but God in the person, and God can't sin ;)

Mockinbird · Jul 31, 2007, 11:10 PM

By pointing a finger at each other doesn't erase GODs decision that Homosexuality is WRONG. Leadership implies you are an example to others with your behavior and actions. If a you are a businessman that is expected to lead a company.. you had better know your business inside and out. If you are to be a leader in the Church you had better have a good grasp on how to lead the congregation as GODs word directs. As a leader in a church you must accept your life is under close observation. God holds you responsible if you mislead his children away from his teachings. You cannot live as a thief or a drunk or a homosexual and guide others in GODS teaching. GOD made the rules regarding homosexuality not man. It is a leaders responsibility to uphold what GOD commands in his house. It doesn't mean christians are judging if we uphold GODS rules. It is by obeying GODS rules that we are hope and light to a dark and thirsty world. GODS demands from us to OBEY. GOD is the judge not us. He is the only one that has the right to judge us all. As Christians its true we all sin and can ask for forgiveness through the mercy and grace of GODs son Jesus. If you practice homosexuality you are sinning. If you steal you are sinning. If you gossip or judge others you are sinning. All are welcome in GODS house to come and hear the good news of salvation and join the body of Christ. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Jesus is the ONLY way to GOD. Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through me" I welcome all sinners to my church. The church is for sinners... thats what it is there for... I have not seen scripture that says accept a thief or a drunk or a homosexual and guide others in GODS teaching. The bible says to confess the sin ask for forgiveness and sin no more! I don't hear that here.. I hear we should have tolerance to sin. God does not want tolerance he wants us to OBEY.

Marily · Jul 31, 2007, 11:58 PM

Yes, we should not be tolerant to sin;)

XMouse · Aug 2, 2007, 03:18 PM

And if God had issues with gays leading churches... he made them like that why?
Cause homosexuals are born not made.

SnaveLeber · Aug 2, 2007, 03:23 PM

Homosexuality is not something that is instilled from birth. Sorry to break it to you. It's a choice.

SnaveLeber · Aug 2, 2007, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by XMouse

And if God had issues with gays leading churches.... he made them like that why?
Cause homosexuals are born not made.

You must be thinking of another God. Because if you're believing in the Christian God, then you have to abide by the entire Bible... and that means the parts that say that Homosexuality is a sin. Also the part that says God would never allow you to face a trial that you can't defeat. Homosexuality is just another temptation to something that is wrong, just like lying or stealing. Just anothing thing you need to deny to yourself, just like premarital sex.

XMouse · Aug 2, 2007, 04:00 PM

There is nothing wrong with being gay. At all. In any way.
And some of the gay people I know are much better people then most of the straight or "normal people'

ebaines · Aug 2, 2007, 05:45 PM

SnaveLeber - you said:

"homosexuality is not something that is instilled from birth. Sorry to break it to you. Its a choice."

Do you have any evidence for this? Or is just something you believe because it fits with your world view of homosexuality being a sin, therefore if anyone is pre-disposed to it they must be sinful? How do you know it's not simply a matter of whatever genes one happens to be born with?

This is really the crux of the matter - one side (yours) views homosexuality as a choice, like deciding to rob a bank, and the other side (mine) views homosexuality, or heterosexuality for that matter, as a pre-disposition one is born with, like having red hair.

paraclete · Aug 2, 2007, 05:46 PM

The Gay life style is contrary to Christian morals so a gay cannot be a minister. There are a number of references in the Bible to homosexuality as sin so Christians should not be led by a person who espouses sin in any form.

SnaveLeber · Aug 2, 2007, 06:53 PM

Well of course, because everyone is born with sin, but not one fixated sin

Mockinbird · Aug 2, 2007, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by XMouse

There is nothing wrong with being gay. At all. In any way.
And some of the gay people i know are much better people then most of the straight or "normal people'

Xmouse the standpoint of homosexuality as a sin is based in the Bible. Apparently you don't agree with the Bible. Thus to argue regarding evidence is moot. A world without Gods laws is left to its own morals. Morals that change like the wind to suit personal desires. No God?. then No rules. You exist to chart your life as you see fit. Problem with that is someone may want to take what they want of your life for themselves. You may think stealing is wrong. Someone else may think its fun. They would think you're a chump and take your car. That's OK since his morals are different than yours. You can't expect him to abide by YOUR morals. Does that make sense to you? Its Gods morals and views that matter. Note one thing. You CAN be a wonderful person and still be a sinner. I have no problem with Gays more than I do other sinners. Its not an issue until they intend to be a leader or a example to others in Gods house. The Bible does not allow them to teach others while openly displaying a lifestyle unacceptable to God. There is much more going on than just outright choices when it comes to sin. Environment, childhood, abuse, neglect... we all are a product of an environment. Still as a society, or as a portion of the body of Christ, rules are placed. A thief cannot say... its because of... blank... I'm a thief. Or I was born to be a thief... its much more complicated than that. The fact remains if you steal.. society punishes you.. and rightly so. In Gods society... sin is wrong. To sin and say you had no choice I was born this way.. won't wash. You will be judged. NOT by me, but by God whom is the one that has the right. Homosexuality is not an acceptable behavior... its not "normal" Its wrong it so many ways. Just because its more accepted by the world we should ignore what the Bible says? Should God adapt his expectations to our NEW tolerant world? If stealing became more acceptable would that make it right? Realize by repeating the Bible to the world Christians are not judging the world. We are warning the world. Gods Grace and forgiveness is a finite thing. They day will come when it will be to late to repent.

XMouse · Aug 3, 2007, 07:21 AM

If you walked into your house and your child was dead and your husband was sitting in the living room watching TV and tells you "I didn't shoot her, not my fault." Would you be able to just be okay with that and not hate him passionatly ? Why can god not be held up to the same standards as a common man ?