[Wondergirl]

She's a "once saved, always saved" believer, so I guess I am not surprised about the forgiveness belief.

Martin Luther:

What does such baptizing with water signify?

It signifies that the old Adam in us should, by daily contrition and repentance, be drowned and die with all sins and evil lusts, and, again, a new man daily come forth and arise; who shall live before God in righteousness and purity forever.

[dwashbur]

ooooooh, we disagree my buddy ol pal. The gospel of grace says we are forgiven/saved after we BELIEVE. We are either covered under the blood or we aren't. It doesn't need to be applied by repenting over and over everytime we mess up. Now, do I really think we disagree? NOPE but i thought I'd get something started...for grins. :D but who knows you can be a bit screwy sometimes...maybe you will fight me on it. ha.

Actually, we agree. The problem is that I was vague. I referred to repentance in the Acts 2:38 sense. I agree with the others that daily confession and forgiveness is a must, a la 1 John 1:9, but thanks for pointing out my little slip of the keyboard :D

[classyT]

We daily sin and we daily repent and ask for forgiveness.

Of course, if you don't sin any longer, there's no problem.

WG,

I am a sinner. I sin and probably daily. Sometimes I don't even KNOW I have sinned. How can I confess what I do not recognize as sin or even FORGET to confess. There is no way everyone confesses everything as hard as they might try. It is just another work that the finished work of Christ already paid in full. I confess and talk to the Lord concerning my sins for my relationship with him. But like I said, sometimes I don't even remember. He has me covered. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from ALL sin. I choose to be Christ conscience rather than sin conscience.

[Wondergirl]

WG,

I am a sinner. I sin and probably daily. Sometimes I don't even KNOW i have sinned. How can I confess what I do not recognize as sin or even FORGET to confess.

It's not the point of confession to remember every single sin. With your reasoning, you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[classyT]

WG,
No I'm not! Look if confession is really required than it is REALLY required. You can't have it both ways. That's my take. We confess for our relationship with Him not at all to maintain our salvation. No way... no how. :)

[Wondergirl]

WG,
No I'm not! Look if confession is really required than it is REALLY required. You can't have it both ways. thats my take. We confess for our relationship with Him not at all to maintain our salvation. no way....no how. :)

Read the stories of all those Bible people who confessed their sin on a regular, even daily, basis. I'm not having anything both ways.

I never said a word about using daily confession to maintain our salvation.

[gromitt82]

Read the stories of all those Bible people who confessed their sin on a regular, even daily, basis. I'm not having anything both ways.

I never said a word about using daily confession to maintain our salvation.

For both ClassyT and WG

I do not see the point in debating over the subject of confession. I guess it is a matter of personal convictions. Even in the RCC, right now, lots of people take the Communion at the Mass without having previously received the official forgiveness of their sins (which only 40 years ago was mandatory) and it is left to each one to repent of his/her sins WITHOUT CONFESSING. By the same token, many are confessing every week while at the Mass.

Only one thing is certain. Confession or NO confession, we shall ALL, one day, face the Great Confessor who will determine the degree of penance we must undergo.

Gromitt82:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Wondergirl]

Only one thing is certain. Confession or NO confession, we shall ALL, one day, face the Great Confessor who will determine the degree of penance we must undergo.

Jesus made the complete sacrifice, so when this life ends, there will no longer be a need to repent.

[gromitt82]

Jesus made the complete sacrifice, so when this life ends, there will no longer be a need to repent.

If you think so hAKUNA MATATA AND GOOD LUCK TO YOU!
Gromitt82:o:o

[classyT]

She's a "once saved, always saved" believer, so I guess I am not surprised about the forgiveness belief.[/I]

True, I believe if you are truly saved you can't lose it. How could you? I couldn'[t renounce Jesus today and be done with him because I'm sealed with the Holy Spirit for he has promised to NEVER leave me or forsake me ;anymore than a unbeliever who doesn't believe in Satan can renounce satan and be done with him. Just because a person doesn't believe in Satan doesn't make him NOT under his control. I can't sin my way out either because where sin abounds grace much MORE abounds.

[Wondergirl]

I couldn'[t renounce Jesus today and be done with him

But some have renounced Him. Vehemently so. And never changed their minds.

[classyT]

WG,

And IF they were REALLY saved (not just head knowledge) they are STILL in Christ. I imagine most that give him up never had him in the first place. Remember the parable of the sower...

[Wondergirl]

WG,

and IF they were REALLY saved (not just head knowledge) they are STILL in Christ. I imagine most that give him up never had him in the first place. Remember the parable of the sower...

It was more than head knowledge, but bad things happened to them or to loved ones, and they cursed God, vehemently rejected Him. Others acquired higher education and rejected their Christian beliefs in favor of common sense and advanced understanding of how the world works.

[dwashbur]

It was more than head knowledge, but bad things happened to them or to loved ones, and they cursed God, vehemently rejected Him. Others acquired higher education and rejected their Christian beliefs in favor of common sense and advanced understanding of how the world works.

I've been through this with one of my daughters. She once told me she didn't believe in God any more. I simply replied, that's okay, God still believes in you. It took several years but she's slowly making her way back. With some people that happens, with others it doesn't. I don't even pretend to understand it all.

[classyT]

It was more than head knowledge, but bad things happened to them or to loved ones, and they cursed God, vehemently rejected Him. Others acquired higher education and rejected their Christian beliefs in favor of common sense and advanced understanding of how the world works.

How do you know it was more than head knowledge? How can anyone be sure?

I completely reject the notion that someone was really saved but because they got a higher education and advanced understanding of how the world works they gave up Christ. They never had HIM. They had a "religion". How are you going to read the Bible and have any wisdom whatsoever of it and give it up? How are you going to have a REAL relationship with the Lord and turn to "advanced understanding". I don't believe Judas was ever REAL either by the way... there are plenty of people who say they are saved but they just aren't. The first new thing out there they are on it. I know someone like that.

[gromitt82]

How do you know it was more than head knowledge? How can anyone be sure?

I completely reject the notion that someone was really saved but because they got a higher education and advanced understanding of how the world works they gave up Christ. They never had HIM. They had a "religion". How are you going to read the Bible and have any wisdom whatsoever of it and give it up? How are you going to have a REAL relationship with the Lord and turn to "advanced understanding". I don't believe Judas was ever REAL either btw...there are plenty of people who say they are saved but they just aren't. The first new thing out there they are on it. I know someone like that.

Just a short reminder of the passage of Matthew's Gospel.

."..while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth..." (Matthew 8:12)

Many of these sons of the kingdom are convinced they deserve the Salvation. What a big dissapointmet they may have... and n othing left for them but "the weeping and gnashing of teeth..."
Gromitt82

[classyT]

Grom,

Thanks for the reminder but I haven't forgotten the passage. I do not believe the Lord Jesus is referring to blood bought believers. It is a very sobering verse though.

[classyT]

I've been through this with one of my daughters. She once told me she didn't believe in God any more. I simply replied, that's okay, God still believes in you. It took several years but she's slowly making her way back. With some people that happens, with others it doesn't. I don't even pretend to understand it all.

Dave,

Here it the thing. I personally never stopped believing in God. BUT... I have lived like He didn't matter. So which is worse? Did I lose my salvation? Did she? Because your daughter has questions or is skeptical.. does that mean she isn't saved? I don't think so.. I saw my niece go through the same thing... she is right where she needs to be. She always was... the Lord showed himself to be true. He never left her even in all her doubt. He is called the ROCK. We are called sheep. I think that says it all.

[Wondergirl]

We are called sheep. I think that says it all.

Sheep wander away from the flock and are eaten by wolves or coyotes.

[classyT]

WG,

That is why Jesus is called the good shepherd. I'm not too worried about wolves or coyotes because I'm under HIS care. :)