[Tuttyd]

The report was also in 2008 before all this new stuff got started but it shows the system was broken already.

Yes, this is pretty much the point I was making. When it starts to fail middle income earners then you have major problems.

[speechlesstx]

Are we talking about the 'previous system' or the system in transition?

We're talking Obamacare, taxing medical devices to help pay for it.

Obamacare's Medical-Device Tax Kills Patients, Not Just Jobs

[talaniman]

No, we were talking about middle class citizens having problems affording the rising cost of health care since before Obama Care. Tuts link was from 2008, before the global meltdown and job losses.

Insurance industry has done quite well through out this period, and even with taxes going up in the health industry. Given your own experiences even you should be able to recognize the problems the middle class is having and the poor even more, and this was way before this president took office.

[NeedKarma]

No, we were talking about middle class citizens having problems affording the rising cost of health care since before Obama Care.

Thanks for keeping the discussion on track.

[Tuttyd]

We're talking Obamacare, taxing medical devices to help pay for it.

Obamacare's Medical-Device Tax Kills Patients, Not Just Jobs

Not really. No one is being killed per se. This is because the article is talking about the statistical prediction of future deaths. This is nothing new because such a upward statistical trend was evident under the 'previous system'

[speechlesstx]

Not really. No one is being killed per se. This is because the article is talking about the statistical prediction of future deaths. This is nothing new because such a upward statistical trend was evident under the 'previous system'

It was just the first column I came to to answer your question, we're now taxing medical devices, i.e. making healthcare more expensive to help pay for cheaper healthcare.

[speechlesstx]

Thanks for keeping the discussion on track.

I started this discussion and really don't need anyone to keep it on track. The topic is absurdities.

[Tuttyd]

It was just the first column I came to to answer your question, we're now taxing medical devices, i.e. making healthcare more expensive to help pay for cheaper healthcare.

Yes, you have answered that part of the question. Will jobs be lost? Probably. Will taxing medical devices make health care more expensive? Probably. The bottom line is I don't really know, nor does anyone else. All anyone can do is make predictions.

It is for this reason that I have a problem with the misleading headline of the Forbes article:

Obama's Medical Device Tax Kills Patients, Not just Jobs.

The only way the truth of falsity of the headline can be determined is by future trends. In other words, will Obama Care arrest the already evident trend to a decrease in life expectancy, or will it add to an increase in this particular statistic?

[talaniman]

It was just the first column I came to to answer your question, we're now taxing medical devices, i.e. making healthcare more expensive to help pay for cheaper healthcare.

Doctors and insurance companies, well any business has always passed the cost of doing business onto consumers. Why is this different than the price of food going up.

Tax or not, the price goes up. But don't expect costs to stabalize until after 2014. Expect an upward push as companies prepare to NOT be able to raise the prices as much as they had planned to do forever.

That's capitalism, my friend, and business doesn't care whether you have money and can afford services since for now you have no choices, or options that are good ones, and they know it.

[speechlesstx]

Doctors and insurance companies, well any business has always passed the cost of doing business onto consumers. Why is this different than the price of food going up.

Tax or not, the price goes up. But don't expect costs to stabalize until after 2014. Expect an upward push as companies prepare to NOT be able to raise the prices as much as they had planned to do forever.

Thats capitalism, my friend, and business doesn't care whether you have money and can afford services since for now you have no choices, or options that are good ones, and they know it.

Apparently I'm the only who sees the absurdity of making healthcare more expensive to make it cheaper. That's liberalism, not capitalism.

[Tuttyd]

Apparently I'm the only who sees the absurdity of making healthcare more expensive to make it cheaper. That's liberalism, not capitalism.

No, you are not the only one. Didn't I also point out this possibility in my previous post?

I would say that it is both liberalism and capitalism at work.

[talaniman]

Liberalism has nothing to do with the business model of the capitalist, and I submit to you that looming caps and restriction that business knows is coming, is making them prepare now while the rest of us wait and see.

To put capitalism in the same context of either conservative or liberal is to miss the point its NIETHER. Its PROFITS, but unfortunately it influences politics, and policy no matter the name you put on beneficiaries, victims.

[speechlesstx]

Liberalism has nothing to do with the business model of the capitalist, and I submit to you that looming caps and restriction that business knows is coming, is making them prepare now while the rest of us wait and see.

To put capitalism in the same context of either conservative or liberal is to miss the point its NIETHER. Its PROFITS, but unfortunately it influences politics, and policy no matter the name you put on beneficiaries, victims.

It was libs that made healthcare more expensive to make it cheaper. It's also libs that keep expressing shock at the "unforeseen" consequences of Obamacare. Last week it was college professors getting pushed to part time, this week unions are unhappy about the cost of health insurance and demanding subsidies.

Who would've seen that coming??

[talaniman]

I did because I have seen this same dynamic before, MANY times before. From the grocery store, to the price of gas, to doctor visits, to buying school supplies for the kids, to medicine, to electric bills, to car insurance, to mortgages, to... etc.

What? Is this your first experience with the realities of life in America, or have you been sleep for... 30 years? Cost goes up no matter who is running Washington, but your paycheck doesn't go up as fast.

LOL, you freaked over Obama Care, I freaked over Reaganomics.

[speechlesstx]

I did because I have seen this same dynamic before, MANY times before. From the grocery store, to the price of gas, to doctor visits, to buying school supplies for the kids, to medicine, to electric bills, to car insurance, to mortgages, to......................etc.

What?? Is this your first experience with the realities of life in America, or have you been sleep for ..............30 years? Cost goes up no matter who is running Washington, but your paycheck doesn't go up as fast.

LOL, you freaked over Obama Care, I freaked over Reaganomics.

Please, the condescension is unnecessary. Explaining the irony of liberals freaking over the consequences we warned of before Obamacare was rammed through apparently is.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

If Obama didn't try to cater to the right wing, who weren't ABOUT to be catered to, the law would be a lot simpler... So, it needs some tweaking.. MOST large bills need a little tweaking. But, your side ain't going to be included in the conversation... What? We should believe that you'll contribute??

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

If Obama didn't try to cater to the right wing, who weren't ABOUT to be catered to, the law would be a lot simpler... So, it needs some tweaking.. MOST large bills need a little tweaking. But, your side ain't gonna be included in the conversation... What? We should believe that you'll contribute???

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

Obama catering to the right wing? Now that's funny.We weren't included in the conversation at all. In fact you know Mimi Pelosi told us we didn't need to know nuthin', just pass the damn thing so we could know what's in it.

You libs really think we were born yesterday don't you?

[paraclete]

You libs really think we were born yesterday don't you?

On the evidence, yes

[speechlesstx]

On the evidence, yes

What evidence would that be Clete?

[paraclete]

What evidence would that be Clete?

Well speech we could start with Romney's 47% remark