[talaniman]

To bad the HOUSE budget is worse, a lot worse than NO budget at all. And yes, people are starting to see that repubs, and Grover, are about big business, and need a small government to do as they please, the way they please.

Its obvious where the attack on the middle class, unions, old people, poor, and minorities is coming from. So called job creators trying to starve the beast.

[Wondergirl]

I just received an interesting email --

Corporate Tax Holiday in Debt Ceiling Deal: Where's the Uproar? | Rolling Stone Politics | Taibblog | Matt Taibbi on Politics and the Economy

[tomder55]

It's hilarious . The European countries were spending like drunken Democrats since the end of WWII... They developed the Levitian travesty that the left here is trying to duplicate.
Now ,even though their military outlays are puny ,they still find themselves on the verge of collapse. Italy as an example is in debt to the tune of 120 percent of GDP . And what are they going to do about it ? They are going on austerity . They have no choice. For the most part ,the austerity is layoffs and reductions in entitlements .
Your one trick pony of taxing the few and no entitlement cuts will not get it done. The US debt will exceed 100% of GDP by 2015 . A line has to be drawn on spending somewhere. Let's start small. Bring spending levels back to 2008 before TARP and the bucket list giveaway .

[talaniman]

There will be cuts, but not with a butcher knife, but with a scalpel, and a very balanced approach that everyone contributes too. And forget comparing country states in Europe to the USA, because you forget we built them in the first place.

JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, there has to be some actual work done to make demand, money, and profits, otherwise you have a crap shoot, like Wall Street, who started this whole thing in the first place.

[speechlesstx]

The American people are sold on what Dingy Harry calls the worst legislation in the history of America, by a 2-1 margin according to a CNN poll. You wouldn't know it by CNN's take with a headline like "CNN Poll: Strong partisan divide on debt ceiling."

Thirteen paragraphs into the article we learn that the partisanship isn't quite so partisan:

Republicans like the "cut, cap, and balance" approach to the debt ceiling, as do Democrats and independents. Most Americans support a balanced budget amendment, and most, but not as many, think an amendment is necessary to get federal spending under control. A balanced budget amendment passed the House earlier this week, but a vote in the Senate is expected to fail.

The opinion on Cut, Cap and Balance?

In another proposal, Congress would raise the debt ceiling only if a balanced budget amendment were passed by both houses of Congress and substantial spending cuts and caps on future spending were approved. Would you favor or oppose this proposal?

July 18-20 2011
Favor 66%
Oppose 33%
No opinion 1%

Reid may think balancing the budget while cutting spending is the worst possible scenario, but the American people are SOLD on it.

[excon]

The opinion on Cut, Cap and Balance?

Hello again, Steve:

You mean, Crash, Slash and Burn?

Of course, when you LIE about a particular piece of legislation, the people can be persuaded... But, when you look DEEPER into the bill, you find that it's EXTRAORDINARILY bad. Here's just ONE part.. Right now, from a Constitutional perspective, congress can raise money if it needs to, by a majority vote. This law changes it to a 2/3rd's vote.

On the surface, that might sound nice. But if you dwell upon it, it's a recipe for disaster, because a 2/3rd's vote will NEVER happen... That means the country will be hamstrung. Think how difficult your life would be if you couldn't borrow. Think how difficult it will be if the country can't either... That'll mean no more war, of course... Some might like that, but it would put the country into danger. In fact, it would DESTROY us.

excon

[talaniman]

The devil is in the details, and while it could stand to be scrutinized and debated, the immediate concern is the debt ceiling. Everyone agrees on raising it, not debating it, too late for that.

Even republican conservative governors are starting to realize, that the consequences of NOT raising it quickly, are a disaster for their own states credit, like in Virginia, and several other states.

Time for talk and politics is over, lets vote, and go from there. But leave it to repubs to keep changing the rules, in an effort to get what they want, and not give a darn thing in return, not even a JOB!!

[speechlesstx]

Of course, when you LIE about a particular piece of legislation, the people can be persuaded...

I haven't lied about it, I was just reporting. I personally think requiring a 2/3 vote to raise my taxes is a good thing.

[talaniman]

I haven't lied about it, I was just reporting. I personally think requiring a 2/3 vote to raise my taxes is a good thing.

Obama wants you to keep your current tax rate, you are in the middle class aren't you? Its your repubs who keep saying he wants to raise taxes on everybody, and that's a lie, just 1% who sucked all the money from the economy. They also say that a tax raise will hurt job creation, another lie, because their wealth doesn't depend on making a job for you. They have other options (move to cheaper countries) so they are no longer job creators are they?

[speechlesstx]

I haven't said anything about raising taxes on everyone so who's telling the lie? What difference does it make whose taxes are being raised, I find a 2/3 vote to do so is still a good thing.

I just don't get why anyone wants to punish people for success. That's just stupid to me, and the ideologue in the White House doesn't care if raising taxes is counterproductive, he thinks raising taxes on those making over $200,000 is "fair" because its' better to him to “spread the wealth around.”

Nonsense, there is nothing fair about taking from one to give to another.

[Wondergirl]

I haven't said anything about raising taxes on everyone

Republicans are saying that. Boehner said it.

I just don't get why anyone wants to punish people for success.

Why punish me and take away or reduce part of my income (S.S.) -- i.e. "there is nothing fair about taking from one to give to another" who has much, much more than I do?

[talaniman]

Shared sacrifice has nothing to do with being punished at all. That's a misconception. Its all about EVERYONE getting some skin in the game to dig us out the ditch, one caused by a recession, that was caused by the rich so called job creators. Heck that's fair, you bail them out they bail you out.

Or at least stop calling them JOB CREATORS. You do your part they do theirs. That's NOT fair to YOU?

[speechlesstx]

Everyone getting some skin in the game? OK, get all those welfare deadbeats off their a$$es and put them to work doing something. Pulling weeds along the highway works for me.

"Shared sacrifice" is just an Orwellian term meaning "soak the rich" and personally, I'm sick of Democrats using that term along with "balanced approach," meaning "raise the ceiling, soak the rich, spend trillions more" and then rinse and repeat. NO! We are not buying it.

[talaniman]

QUOTE by speechlesstx;
Everyone getting some skin in the game? OK, get all those welfare deadbeats off their a$$es and put them to work doing something. Pulling weeds along the highway works for me.

First you have to separate the deadbeats from the ones that want a JOB, but can't get one, and the disabled who can't work, and then find some governor who will pay them to pull weeds along the highway.

FACT-To even qualify for welfare, you have to earn at less than 33% above the poverty level, or be disabled, or be willing to take a job, IF they have one available.

FACT-More than half the welfare recipients are children, and the rest are disabled adults, or the working poor.

FACT-Seen the unemployed figures lately?

"Shared sacrifice" is just an Orwellian term meaning "soak the rich" and personally, I'm sick of Democrats using that term along with "balanced approach," meaning "raise the ceiling, soak the rich, spend trillions more" and then rinse and repeat. NO! We are not buying it.

FACT-Wages have been stagnant for the middle class for more than a decade, while prices, corporate profits, have risen three fold. AND NO TAXES PAID.

FACTS-NO JOBS!!

FACT-Whether a debt reduction or tax cut or whatever is necessary or not, I agree it is, that has nothing at all to do with raising the debt ceiling.

MY OPINION-I am sick of repubs creating a crisis to extort what they want. And they spend as many trillions on what they want as Democrats, and that's a fact.

[speechlesstx]

First you have to separate the deadbeats from the ones that want a JOB, but can't get one, and the disabled who can't work...

FACT-I've already made those distinctions numerous times.

MY OPINION-I am sick of repubs creating a crisis to extort what they want. And they spend as many trillions on what they want as Democrats, and that's a fact.

Rahm Emmanuel: "Never let a serious crisis go to waste."

[speechlesstx]

Alrighty, the Senate has voted down the House plan as expected, 51-46. On to the Democratic plan. Wait, there isn't one.

Why are Senators taking the weekend off if it was irresponsible for the House to do so according to Dirty Harry, especially since the Democrat-controlled Senate has proposed NOTHING? I thought this was a crisis for crying out loud.

[talaniman]

It is a crisis, that requires a vote to pay for past bills, not new spending, deficit reduction, or any other plans from anybody.

The BIG DEAL can come later. Now about those JOBS!!

[speechlesstx]

It is a crisis, that requires a vote to pay for past bills, not new spending, deficit reduction, or any other plans from anybody.

The BIG DEAL can come later. Now about those JOBS!!!!!

Dude, the Senate hasn't passed a budget resolution as required by law for two years. TWO years. The Democratic-controlled House last year failed to pass a budget as required by the constitution. The president has ignored his own commission's conclusions for months.

Obama vowed unemployment wouldn't go above 8 percent. He spent hundreds of billions of dollars on "shovel ready" jobs that he JOKED about not being "shovel ready." We're a year past "recovery summer" and things look about the same. No wait, mass layoffs are on the upswing. That's "change" for you.

Some crisis managers these Democrats.

[Wondergirl]

He spent hundreds of billions of dollars on "shovel ready" jobs

There ARE shovel-ready jobs in this state, but the state never released all the money they were given. The banks are still hoarding the money they were given.

Reminds me of the guy who was desperately poor and needed money to get his dog spayed. He used the money I gave him to get a tattoo.

[speechlesstx]

You're comparing tattoo money to a $787 billion spending spree?