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jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2020, 02:32 PM

Jesus told her,"I love you in spite of everything and want you to make a better life for yourself."

No, He didn't. Have you always had this terrible habit of just making things up and then putting it in quotes?

Nope, "you" is never called for in situations like that. That's just more shaming and has nothing to do with "backbone".

Yes, it is called for. It's exactly what Jesus said. The subject "you" is understood. "You go and sin no more." Couldn't be plainer.

Wondergirl · Jun 11, 2020, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

No, He didn't. Have you always had this terrible habit of just making things up and then putting it in quotes?

That's what "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her" means, "I love you." He didn't ask us to shape up before He died on the cross for us.

Yes, it is called for. It's exactly what Jesus said. The subject "you" is understood. "You go and sin no more." Couldn't be plainer.

Let's unravel this. Jesus was a Jew and knew only the Law. There was no Gospel yet. Thus, there was no love, only rules.

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2020, 02:52 PM

Yeah. Right. There was no gospel. I suppose you think that now that there's a gospel, then Jesus would say, "Go and sin a whole lot." Come on. Don't be ridiculous. You are quoting fantasies.

talaniman · Jun 11, 2020, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Mayors wife yesterday said NYC without police would be Nirvana .

She sure did.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nyc...topia-not-soon

...but not anytime soon

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Even if they hadn't listened, I would have continued to love them, and loved and accepted their partners and offspring unconditionally.

Absolutely!

Wondergirl · Jun 11, 2020, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yeah. Right. There was no gospel. I suppose you think that now that there's a gospel, then Jesus would say, "Go and sin a whole lot." Come on. Don't be ridiculous. You are quoting fantasies.

You are trying to mind read and failing miserably. Your conclusion is totally bonkers.

So much for unraveling. Remind me not to try to have a fruitful discussion with you again.

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2020, 03:47 PM

Do not try to have a fruitful discussion with me again, especially concerning why you "disagree" with abortion, or how the gospel was not here even when Jesus was here, or why we should tell people not to engage in foolish, sinful behaviors.

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2020, 03:54 PM

I'll add this. I tell the guys at the rehab center that if they are smart, they will have two or three people who love them enough to tell them when they are messing up. In the story of David and Bathsheba, one of David's men tried to tell him in a soft sort of way. What he really needed was someone who smack him upside his head and tell him to find something else to do. It is hard to overestimate the importance of those kind of people. Forget this psycho quackery. "You are doing something stupid! Stop!"

talaniman · Jun 11, 2020, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Do not try to have a fruitful discussion with me again, especially concerning why you "disagree" with abortion, or how the gospel was not here even when Jesus was here, or why we should tell people not to engage in foolish, sinful behaviors.

LOL, preachers (Or clergy, church officials) have no problem identifying sins and Jesus was a sinner according to the religion he was raised in, so while there was a gospel it was Jewish gospel, not Jesus's gospel. That came later.

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I'll add this. I tell the guys at the rehab center that if they are smart, they will have two or three people who love them enough to tell them when they are messing up. In the story of David and Bathsheba, one of David's men tried to tell him in a soft sort of way. What he really needed was someone who smack him upside his head and tell him to find something else to do. It is hard to overestimate the importance of those kind of people. Forget this psycho quackery. "You are doing something stupid! Stop!"

Some respond differently to different approaches so one sizes doesn't fit all.

Wondergirl · Jun 11, 2020, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Do not try to have a fruitful discussion with me again, especially concerning why you "disagree" with abortion, or how the gospel was not here even when Jesus was here, or why we should tell people not to engage in foolish, sinful behaviors.

I disagree with abortion but abortion only for myself -- unless my OB has a very valid reason it must be done. My right to swing my fist, especially about abortion, ends where another's nose begins.

No one in Israel during Jesus' time on Earth had any idea of "Gospel". All was Law. Jesus condensed the ten "shalt not" commandments into the two greatest commandments of love.

There's a more effective, God-pleasing way to "tell people not to engage in foolish, sinful behaviors" than getting into their faces and preaching at them.

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2020, 05:49 PM

I disagree with abortion

But why?

There's a more effective, God-pleasing way to "tell people not to engage in foolish, sinful behaviors" than getting into their faces and preaching at them.

Sometimes yes, but sometimes no.

What do you think of this? "3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and [d]I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh; so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

There are a number of plain, clear rebukes in the NT.

paraclete · Jun 11, 2020, 06:02 PM

You go to the rehab centre, now that is no surprise, I was wondering what dope you have been smokin

Wondergirl · Jun 11, 2020, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Sometimes yes, but sometimes no.

Always no. No nose punching.

What do you think of this? "3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and [d]I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh; so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

There are a number of plain, clear rebukes in the NT.

I agree with Matthew Henry:
"[Christians] should walk circumspectly, for many eyes are upon us, and many mouths will be opened against us if we fall into any scandalous practice."

jlisenbe · Jun 11, 2020, 07:51 PM

OK. I agree with Jesus and Paul. Look up the rebuke Jesus gave to Peter, and then look up the rebuke that Paul gave to Peter.

Wondergirl · Jun 11, 2020, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

OK. I agree with Jesus and Paul. Look up the rebuke Jesus gave to Peter, and then look up the rebuke that Paul gave to Peter.

And that all has what to do with us?

paraclete · Jun 11, 2020, 10:22 PM

He is talking about not being too religiously minded

jlisenbe · Jun 12, 2020, 06:20 AM

And that all has what to do with us?

It illustrates that your idea of never confronting people does not come from the Bible. The Bible is filled with confrontation which is frequently a very good thing. Not shouting and yelling or finger pointing, but a willingness to confront a person with the foolishness of his or her ways. To be silent or cream-puff soft is sometimes neither loving nor kind. Your views in that regard do not reflect the teaching of the Bible.

jlisenbe · Jun 12, 2020, 08:01 AM

To be clear, I'm not ridiculing your beliefs. You are certainly entitled to them and I accept that. I'm simply saying that when you say we should never confront people and have those "you" conversations, you are not being consistent with the Bible.

Wondergirl · Jun 12, 2020, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The Bible is filled with confrontation which is frequently a very good thing. Not shouting and yelling or finger pointing, but a willingness to confront a person with the foolishness of his or her ways. To be silent or cream-puff soft is sometimes neither loving nor kind. Your views in that regard do not reflect the teaching of the Bible.

This is 2020. Shouting and yelling and finger pointing are three of the very best ways to turn people off to the Gospel. Of course, silence and cream-puffery don't accomplish anything either. Gee, I wonder if you can guess what works. Hmm...

jlisenbe · Jun 12, 2020, 11:15 AM

Shouting and yelling and finger pointing are three of the very best ways to turn people off to the Gospel.

1. Haven't suggested shouting, yelling, or finger-pointing. Stop making things up.
2. I'm not talking about the Gospel. I'm talking about people who are engaging in foolish behavior like the very action that started this exchange which was having multiple children out of wedlock.

Wondergirl · Jun 12, 2020, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

1. Haven't suggested shouting, yelling, or finger-pointing. Stop making things up.

Making things up? Please reread what I said.

2. I'm not talking about the Gospel. I'm talking about people who are engaging in foolish behavior like the very action that started this exchange which was having multiple children out of wedlock.

And my question stands -- I wonder what would work to convince them to change this or any other behavior.