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cdad · Dec 5, 2013, 07:18 PM

Of course we got louder. Its because we can not accept your revisionist view of history. What Obamacare is doing is involving the government by threat of arrest into the healthcare system. That has nothing to do with what was proposed by Nixon or Bush. Its amazing how far the fog has sunk in to the brains of the sheeple that they would rather live the lie then accept the truth.

talaniman · Dec 5, 2013, 07:36 PM

Show me the threat of arrest then tell me who the revision it is.

paraclete · Dec 5, 2013, 09:13 PM

Is this what you are referring to Tal

ObamaCare Myth: You Will Go to Jail If You Don't Pay the Fee for Not Buying Health Insurance
The only way for the IRS to collect the fee for not having health insurance, if you choose not to pay it, is for them to withhold the money you would get back from the IRS after filing your income tax returns. The IRS cannot enforce the Individual Shared Responsibility provision with jail time, liens, or any other of typical methods of collection.

talaniman · Dec 5, 2013, 09:29 PM

Thank you Clete and just to add the fines don't even start until 2015, 3 months of 2014 are excluded from compliance. So you don't even have to have insurance until March of 2014, later if you have you had insurance for the beginning of the year.

speechlesstx · Dec 6, 2013, 06:09 AM

And yet you have no issue with fining people for not buying a product?

excon · Dec 6, 2013, 06:50 AM

Hello again, Steve:

And yet you have no issue with fining people for not buying a product?

Yeah... I'd much rather pay for Obamacare by limiting how much a medical provider can make.

In fact, I'd much rather pay for it by NATIONALIZING the entire industry... That way our financial/medical crisis would be OVER. I don't use that word lightly.. It would be OVER in ONE FELL SWOOP!!! Wouldn't that be good?? We'd EVEN have money left over to buy 3, maybe 4 aircraft carriers...

Why do you righty's want to SAVE the medical industry at the EXPENSE of our country... Makes NO sense to a fellow like me.

Now, you DO, of course, realize that I'm NOT a socialist.. I'd RATHER the medical industry worked for US, like it used to. But, it doesn't. The ENTIRE industry is interested in PROFITS more than SERVICE... No, it wouldn't bother me a BIT to nationalize them.. What have they done for ME, except to BANKRUPT my country?????

excon

talaniman · Dec 6, 2013, 06:56 AM

A product only because its sold on the free market by private companies that protects you and your health issues from the rest of us, and mine from you. Like seat belts, you get fined for not wearing them.

speechlesstx · Dec 6, 2013, 08:19 AM

The old seat belt straw man, that was to be expected. Driving is a privilege, you shouldn't get fined for existing, dude.

By the way, I just learned this morning that our "affordable" health insurance is getting considerably more expensive and we're losing dental. That's your idea of "fairness," screwing people over who have been responsible and did nothing to deserve you making us poorer.

excon · Dec 6, 2013, 08:29 AM

Hello again, Steve:

You're losing the argument one family at a time. Here's another FOX lie that you probably believe.

You saw THE BABY IS NOT COVERED hysteria over on FOX, didn't you?? Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

Step away from the TV, Steve. It's rotting your brain.

excon

speechlesstx · Dec 6, 2013, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

You're losing the argument one family at a time. Here's another FOX lie that you probably believe.

You saw THE BABY IS NOT COVERED hysteria over on FOX, didn't you?? Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

Step away from the TV, Steve. It's rotting your brain.

excon

I don't recall ever mentioning that horror story so save that for someone else. That seems to be a real problem with you and Tal, you keep arguing based on stuff we've never said or positions we've never taken. What I DID say was this:

By the way, I just learned this morning that our "affordable" health insurance is getting considerably more expensive and we're losing dental. That's your idea of "fairness," screwing people over who have been responsible and did nothing to deserve you making us poorer.

tomder55 · Dec 6, 2013, 08:43 AM

The fines won't get paid , nor will they be enough to prevent the death spiral . Kids aint stupid .They are not going to sign up in droves for this plunder of their scarce resources ..Right now the ratio is about 50:1 for people being dropped from their coverage because of the Obamacare mandates ,compared to new enrollees (mostly Medicaid ) .

talaniman · Dec 6, 2013, 08:44 AM

Yeah I was pissed when my employee contributions for health insurance went up way before Obama care. I didn't blame Reagan though, I blamed the boss, and my union since we only got a .05 cent hourly wage increase.

Hmmm I also remember Reagan waving a paper showing all the new jobs he had created which turned out to be low paying fast food jobs. I also remember paying big bucks out of my pocket that took 3 years to pay off because the company provided insurance went bankrupt. I didn't blame Reagan I blamed the boss, and thanked the union for much needed support during a lousy time.

In time though I understood the boss was catching his own hell because of a recession, or economic downturn if you will. Back then the minimum wage was less than 4 bucks, but it bought a lot more.

excon · Dec 6, 2013, 08:48 AM

Hello again, Steve:

That seems to be a real problem with you and Tal, you keep arguing based on stuff we've never said or positions we've never taken.

Let's put this "poor misjudged ME" crap to rest.. It's called EUPHEMISM. When we say "you", it's NOT you personally, Steve. We LIKE you. It's the right wingers who actually DID say it that we hate.

What??? You don't do it TOO???? Come on, Man!

excon

speechlesstx · Dec 6, 2013, 08:53 AM

Yeah I was pissed when my employee contributions for health insurance went up way before Obama care. I didn't blame Reagan though, I blamed the boss, and my union since we only got a .05 cent hourly wage increase.

It's not the boss' fault, your guy was emphatically clear that we could keep our insurance and the cost would go DOWN, in spite of the bullsh*t lies still being spewed by the regime and idiots like Harry Reid, who by the way will be the only Senator to keep that promise for his staffers.

This is a DIRECT result of this crap sandwich called "affordable care" and it's ANYTHING but fair.

talaniman · Dec 6, 2013, 09:03 AM

Did you read where I came to understand the bosses perspective? Just as I understand yours.

speechlesstx · Dec 6, 2013, 09:10 AM

I fail to see how that helps me pay the bills next year.

excon · Dec 6, 2013, 09:24 AM

Hello again, Steve:

I fail to see how that helps me pay the bills next year.

If you have insurance provided by your employer, you can keep it. Of course, that doesn't mean the insurance company, or your employer are required to keep YOU.

Having said that, if you're employed, you're NOT gonna lose your health care. If you do, you'll PROBABLY be able to get on on the exchange, and buy a policy for LESS money. Of course, if your employer drops you, HE'S the one cutting your income - NOT Obama. Talk to him...

Your costs should only got up if you're a high income earner. I don't wanna know how much you make, but you're the one who uses YOU and your family as examples...

So, irrespective of what FOX news says, DID you lose your own personal insurance?? If you did, did you shop for one at the exchange??? Why are YOUR bills going up??? Mine aren't going up.

excon

PS> (edited) You should excuse me if you've already TOLD us that you LOST your insurance. I can't keep up..

talaniman · Dec 6, 2013, 09:31 AM

I also remember paying big bucks out of my pocket that took 3 years to pay off because the company provided insurance went bankrupt. I didn't blame Reagan I blamed the boss, and thanked the union for much needed support during a lousy time.

I have negotiated more than a few deals to get by until things got better. Survive until you can thrive. Life is what it is. I am in the same boat you are.

speechlesstx · Dec 6, 2013, 09:46 AM

Just reporting the facts, I didn't stutter and I said it twice.

tomder55 · Dec 7, 2013, 03:24 AM

So the law was designed to protect the uninsured and the people with pre-existing conditions . However ,the law of the land before Obamacare ,and dating back to 1996 prevented employer based plans ,Medicare ,and Medicaid from dropping people with pre existing conditions . For the people who had preexisting conditions and no employer plan ,there were subsidized high risk pools established in most states .
Obamacare mandates that these close at the end of the month .

These patients must now enroll in the exchanges. The problem is that many of the plan on the exchanges exclude doctors, specialty cancer centers, and hospitals where these patients are being treated . State commissions across the country are trying desperately to delay the closure of the high risk pools.
Texas postpones closure of high-risk health insurance pool - San Antonio Express-News

These are patients who face a situation where even the slightest delay in treatment could be deadly . Yet to my knowledge ,the emperor has not addressed this issue. He has some fantasy that they can just get on the web ;sign up and get the same quality treatment that could be the difference between life and death on the exchanges .