[inthebox]

First and foremost I voted for "the Man" In that respect, you are right, it doesn't matter.

The bid deal is that he just happens to be black too. In the US blacks have been oppressed for over 200 years. There has been a s-l-o-o-o-o-w uphill climb for equal treatment. I am white and I feel ashamed of my forefathers. Finally, they are making their mark as equals. It's not business as usual that a black man is the leader of this country and that is why you see it as overused. You are fortunate that this is not an issue in your country.

Oppressed for over 200 years?

Do you mean Oprah, or p Diddy or Jay Z or Shaquill or Kobe ------Yeah they are so oppressed.:confused:

Did your fore fathers own slaves? Do you own black slaves? Why do you feel guilty for being white?!

Your reasoning is beyond belief, and the liberal mantra has brainwashed you! [ you bad white person ;) ]

[cozyk]

Oppressed for over 200 years?!

Do you mean Oprah, or p Diddy or Jay Z or Shaquill or Kobe ------Yeah they are so oppressed.:confused:

Did your fore fathers own slaves? Do you own black slaves? Why do you feel guilty for being white?????!!!!!

Your reasoning is beyond belief, and the liberal mantra has brainwashed you! [ you bad white person ;) ]

Yeah, oppressed for over 200 yrs. Oprah, p Diddy and Jay Z etc. are the new generation of successful blacks. These are people that have risen to the top in recent years. Sammy Davis Jr. and Nat King Cole even had to go through the back door of the venues in which they performed. Black people could not even enter through the front door of The Fox Theater here in Atlanta. So, even as late as the 60's they were still getting the short end of the stick. Heck, they were still being lynched in the 60's. It just blows my mind when one group of people believe they are superior to another group of people. Like I said earlier, it is slowly but surely getting better and for that I am glad. Can you not see that? Do you think they were ever oppressed.

I don't believe my family owned slaves but we think my husbands family did. He said that in a boastful way once and I was quick to say that was nothing to be proud of.
So I guess instead of the word ashamed, I should have conveyed my feeling by saying, the way whites have treated blacks is nothing to be proud of. Do you disagree?

You insult me when you say the liberal mantra had brainwashed me. Brainwashed implies I don't know my own mind. I have felt that whites were in the wrong from the time I was a very young child. I did not even know the word liberal when I had made my own deductions. I have the same feelings about the way Native Americans were treated.

Now, on the other hand. I feel the same as Bill Cosby about using the oppression as an excuse He emphasizes that this oppression should never be used as an excuse to not do all that is in your power to achieve.

Is my reasoning still beyond belief?

[inthebox]

I never said that blacks have not been oppressed.

How did they get here? By black slave owners in Africa. Are they still not oppressed by their own kind - for longer than 200 years.
Is there an Oprah or Powell or Clarence thomas or P Diddy or Shaquile or M Jordan equivalent in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Africa?

Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Trends by race

Isn't black on black crime a bigger problem, or the fact that black women have abortions at 3 times the rates of white women?

Your guilt and shame is misplaced.
Even if your ancestors did own slaves, what does that have to do with you?

American Indians are the ones that got a raw deal.

[450donn]

Calm down there you two. This fight has raged for a long time and will not end with your fighting.
Couple of points;
The largest slave owners/traders at the time were blacks.
Most of the slave ships were owned by Europeans and they are the ones who reaped the profits from the slave trade.
Slavery exists today and I don't see either of you screaming bloody murder over it.
Minorities have in the recent past and continue to cause most of their own problems.
The political party that most minorities hang their hat on have for the most part discouraged the family unit, promoted poverty by handing out free money, and warehousing them in large government run warehouses, er apartment buildings.
Jesus taught that if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish you feed him for a lifetime. Government is not the answer. Teaching people a marketable skill is the answer to poverty and unemployment for all. Not just the minorities. The government needs to get out of peoples lives and you would both be surprised how large this countries economy could grow.

[talaniman]

The largest slave owners/traders at the time were blacks.
You are right but Africans treated their slaves as family members for the most part, and had no idea what was done to the ones that were shipped to America or other nations.
Most of the slave ships were owned by Europeans and they are the ones who reaped the profits from the slave trade.
Thats why we fought the civil war, because of unfair labor costs that gave the south a huge advantage in prices in the markets for their goods.
Slavery exists today and I don't see either of you screaming bloody murder over it.
Economic slavery as seen in this so called recession. The rich are not creating jobs, and holding on to their money, and not trickling any thing down to the slaves in the middle class.

[450donn]

Economic slavery as seen in this so called recession. The rich are not creating jobs, and holding on to their money, and not trickling any thing down to the slaves in the middle class.

I was not speaking about economic slavery. I was talking about slavery slavery! Don't believe me, look to the sex trade in places like Bankock Thailand, Africa, the middle east. Yes, our "friends" in the middle east are some of the largest slave owners and traders the world has ever known. Heck, look on any street corner in large town America and you will see prostitutes standing there selling their wares for a few dollars. If they are giving their money to a pimp he is a slave owner. Today it is drugs that keep the slaves in line. At least in this country. Do you see Nancy Peolsy or Harry Reed shouting about that? NO! How about Jesse Jackson, why isn't he standing up and screaming at the tops of his lungs about the slavery in the world today? Instead he is raking in hugh profits making racist speeches around the world and ignoring that his party is the biggest contributor to the problems facing us today. Destruction of the family unit, free abortions to anybody who asks. Welfare money to keep them in poverty, lower education standards for their children than the children of affluent white families. People need to wake up and see who is running the country and the world into the troubles we see today. The liberal elite in Washington! It is not just the Democrats I am talking about, it is people in both parties who have been in Washington way too long and are selling their souls for the money to get elected again. For the power and greed that it brings them.
Mr, Obama is not the answer. No matter how much he said about change, so far he is bringing into his cabinet Washington insiders and more of the same. Just a different name. This country sadly is doomed unless real change takes place.

[cozyk]

I was not speaking about economic slavery. I was talking about slavery slavery! Don't believe me, look to the sex trade in places like Bankock Thailand, Africa, the middle east. Yes, our "friends" in the middle east are some of the largest slave owners and traders the world has ever known. Heck, look on any street corner in large town America and you will see prostitutes standing there selling their wares for a few dollars. If they are giving their money to a pimp he is a slave owner. Today it is drugs that keep the slaves in line. At least in this country. Do you see Nancy Peolsy or Harry Reed shouting about that? NO! How about Jesse Jackson, why isn't he standing up and screaming at the tops of his lungs about the slavery in the world today? Instead he is raking in hugh profits making racist speeches around the world and ignoring that his party is the biggest contributor to the problems facing us today. Destruction of the family unit, free abortions to anybody who asks. welfare money to keep them in poverty, lower education standards for their children than the children of affluent white families. People need to wake up and see who is running the country and the world into the troubles we see today. The liberal elite in Washington! It is not just the Democrats I am talking about, it is people in both parties who have been in Washington way too long and are selling their souls for the money to get elected again. For the power and greed that it brings them.
Mr, Obama is not the answer. No matter how much he said about change, so far he is bringing into his cabinet Washington insiders and more of the same. Just a different name. this country sadly is doomed unless real change takes place.

I've noticed that most of your post are full of negativity.
I bet you have a head-ache all the time with all this doom and gloom and bitterness in how you see things. Every once in a while, try the glass half full approach and see if you feel better. It might even make you more productive in your quest to better this country. May I ask what you are doing to contribute to a better USA. Are you screaming from any mountain tops?

[liz28]

450, I would like to know what racist speeches Jesse Jackson have been saying around the world because what I recall at his speeches is exact opposite.

How would you like it if someone call you a racist because some might think so from your posts.

[talaniman]

We don't know if Mr. Obama is the answer or not, as my gosh, we only elected him a few weeks ago, and he hasn't had a chance to do anything at all. Unlike the so called right wing money grubbers of the last 8 freakin years.

[liz28]

We don't know if Mr. Obama is the answer or not, as my gosh, we only elected him a few weeks ago, and he hasn't had a chance to do anything at all. Unlike the so called right wing money grubbers of the last 8 freakin years.

Exactly, I was unable to agree with you but your so right. He would even be in office until January. I didn't go around crying when Bush got elected and to me there was so many things wrong with that election.

[JBeaucaire]

As long as people talk about black/white... it's an issue.

Martin Luther King once said:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

You know my added spin to that goes like this:
"I have a dream that one day a black man will run for president and lose to a white man... and no man in America thinks for a moment that it was because he was black. I have a dream that people's ideas, their accomplishments and the content of their characters will someday form the sole basis of debate in America."

See the difference? A black man winning the presidency is talked about as if his being black is beside the point... which is true, it is. I think we can only declare we "have finally gotten there" when nobody even deems to bring it up.

Then I'll be convinced.

[inthebox]

The largest slave owners/traders at the time were blacks.
You are right but Africans treated their slaves as family members for the most part, and had no idea what was done to the ones that were shipped to America or other nations.
Most of the slave ships were owned by Europeans and they are the ones who reaped the profits from the slave trade.
Thats why we fought the civil war, because of unfair labor costs that gave the south a huge advantage in prices in the markets for their goods.
Slavery exists today and I don't see either of you screaming bloody murder over it.
Economic slavery as seen in this so called recession. The rich are not creating jobs, and holding on to their money, and not trickling any thing down to the slaves in the middle class.

Where is your proof that slaves were treated 'as family' in Africa?
What does that say about them that they would trade "family" to slavery?

Civil Was also more about states vs federal rights, otherwise Lincoln would have emancipated the slaves right at the start.

Do the poor create jobs? What is the alternative?
What trickle up poverty?

Look at the IRs data as to who pays taxes : 97% are paid by the top 50% wage earners.

And speaking of slavery - how aout the Chinese that built the railways, the european indentured servants, the illegals of today that work for below minimum wage, or as mentioned the women and children in the sex trade?

[talaniman]

Where is your proof that slaves were treated 'as family' in Africa?
What does that say about them that they would trade "family" to slavery?

African slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Civil Was also more about states vs federal rights, otherwise Lincoln would have emancipated the slaves right at the start. There seems to always be a market for cheap labor. Just ask anyone who has been laid off because the company they worked for sent those jobs to where they could get cheap labor.

They tried,
Causes of the Civil War

Do the poor create jobs? What is the alternative?
What trickle up poverty?

That's sort of absurd, but to put it correctly, without a strong middle class of consumers, doubt any one could be rich. So if the trickle ain't enough, we all suffer and I give you the current state of the country for and example.

And speaking of slavery - how about the Chinese that built the railways, the European indentured servants, the illegals of today that work for below minimum wage, or as mentioned the women and children in the sex trade?

There are always those who seek to get rich off the backs of others. Usually those with the power, and influence to do so.

[inthebox]

Your link - does state the cause as States rights.

Who provides jobs? Big corps as welll as hardworking people starting a business.

The majority do not become rich because the government played robin hood and took all the taxes and gave it to the poor.

Look at Ussr or China or Cuba.

The difference here in the US is that you can have humble beginnings but with hard work and education anything is possible. President elect Obama is proof of this.

[talaniman]

The majority do not become rich because the government played robin hood and took all the taxes and gave it to the poor.

That is a broad brush statement that isn't true, as the plan as been explained, only returns the tax scale back to the Reagen era, and trickles more money to middle class people, as I bet its mighty hard to get rich, when the majority holds on to the money, or has none to spend on the products, and services, that are being offered by the corporate class, or the vast number of small businesses, and entrepreneurs looking to grow a business.

Is it logical to you that only the rich circulate the money? Explain how you get rich, or grow a business, when there is no one to buy from you? Now what happens to your businesses? Tell me why the rich have not created the jobs to support the economy lately, as there are 4 million um employed, and counting?

What are the rich doing with there money, as its not creating jobs?

[Randell]

He isn't president, just president-elect.

[talaniman]

Your link - does state the cause as States rights.

Read further as economics, was at the heart of the states rights argument, and in order to level the playing field, and force the south to support the north, in fair trade agreements, with other countries. At the heart of southern market supremacy was cheap labor. Slavery. The industrial north had abandoned the institution of slavery in favor of wages and benefits. But did use taxation, and tariffs as a tool to force the south into fair trade with northern goods.

At first it was a compromise, as the nation grew, and slavery was limited to certain states, but then as we all know, states seceded from the union and conflict began.

So your position is to bring back slavery? Geez, slavery never left, it changed from whips, and chains, to green backs, to whip people to work, and make the rich, richer, and the poor still poor, and we only have to examine the economic reality of today to see that to be true.

You must be in the rich class, so why are you not creating jobs, so we all can prosper, like you said you would??? You've had 8 years of low taxes, and plenty of breaks, so whats the problem, share the wealth!!!!

[inthebox]

That is a broad brush statement that isn't true, as the plan as been explained, only returns the tax scale back to the Reagen era, and trickles more money to middle class people, as I bet its mighty hard to get rich, when the majority holds on to the money, or has none to spend on the products, and services, that are being offered by the corporate class, or the the vast number of small businesses, and entrepreneurs looking to grow a business.

Is it logical to you that only the rich circulate the money? Explain how you get rich, or grow a business, when there is no one to buy from you? Now what happens to your businesses? Tell me why the rich have not created the jobs to support the economy lately, as there are 4 million um employed, and counting?

What are the rich doing with there money, as its not creating jobs??

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post1349400

Do you not know the tax brackets and how "progressive" the tax rates are.

How can there be jobs creation here when the corporate rate is 35-39 % vs 15 % in Ireland.

You never answered the question : how do the poor create wealth.
How many of the rich became rich by the government giving them other taxpayors money?

[inthebox]

Read further as economics, was at the heart of the states rights argument, and in order to level the playing field, and force the south to support the north, in fair trade agreements, with other countries. At the heart of southern market supremacy was cheap labor. Slavery. The industrial north had abandoned the institution of slavery in favor of wages and benefits. But did use taxation, and tariffs as a tool to force the south into fair trade with northern goods.

At first it was a compromise, as the nation grew, and slavery was limited to certain states, but then as we all know, states seceded from the union and conflict began.

So your position is to bring back slavery?? Geez, slavery never left, it changed from whips, and chains, to green backs, to whip people to work, and make the rich, richer, and the poor still poor, and we only have to examine the economic reality of today to see that to be true.

You must be in the rich class, so why are you not creating jobs, so we all can prosper, like you said you would??? You've had 8 years of low taxes, and plenty of breaks, so whats the problem, share the wealth!!!!

1] cotton gin was going to make cheap labor obsolete.

2] I never said I wanted to bring slavery back - perhaps that is you projecting onto me what you truly feel.

3] I'm agi bracket 25% last year and perhaps 28% this year, but certainly less than 250 k.
I was self employed and had a small business, but the headache of running a small
Business, especially the accounting regulation, time sheets, personnel issues etc. was
A headache and detracting from the actual purpose of my business.

4] prosper : work hard, get educated, spend less than you make, invest. Any body can do it. I'm not waiting on on some millionare to make me rich, I'm doing it myself.

[excon]

How can there be jobs creation here when the corporate rate is 35-39 % vs 15 % in Ireland.

Hello in:

You should stop believing all those emails you receive.

In one of my earlier carnations, I was a tax planner for many major US corporations. I was headquartered in the Cayman Islands. Needless to say, I was very good at my job. My clients took advantage of every single deduction and tax credit the law allows. Don't you do the same thing?

Many of my clients paid NO tax at all. Others, who were particularly profitable, paid no more than 10% of their income in taxes.

So, even though the published rate is as you say, NOBODY pays that -NOBODY.

excon