[Athos]

I know nothing but my own interpretation of the word

Truer words were never spoken.

[Wondergirl]

W.G.: Everyone can not go to heaven.....there are prerequisites that must be met....this is no different than many other tenets of life.....You can't expect wacked-out, cultic believing souls will receive passage into heaven, do you. For instance, atheist can not go to heaven: Do you know how many Marxist there are in world? Millions, possibly billions and NONE OF THEM will receive passage into the kingdom of heaven: To be a Bolshevik means that you are an atheist and to be an atheist means you can not get into heaven. Anyone who has committed blasphemy will not go. It is straightforward and clear as it can be. God will have the final say so.....I know nothing but my own interpretation of the word of the Lord so, please, don't shoot the messenger!

You're really holding tight to those keys!

[Vacuum7]

W.G.: You give me way too much credit and certainly I have no power: The keys are held the one who made all of us.....We all have an equal shot, its really a choice....its up to us to make the right choice. Believe me, it was hard for me to come to terms with the absolute finality of what the choice is IF THAT CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE.....I thought about the fairness of it and questioned a lot of things that I THOUGHT I KNEW WITH COMPLETE CONFIDENCE.....but some things are not of "interpretation", some things are simply of belief, of trust, of knowing that God has your back, no matter what: That's the deal: In the Catholic religion, its called "The Mystery Of Faith".....it simply means that you follow, whether you understand it or not, whether you know the absolute solution or not......you follow to the end of no ends.

[Wondergirl]

W.G.: You give me way too much credit and certainly I have no power

I was scolding you!

[Vacuum7]

W.G.: I know you were….but I also want you to know that I am not as crazy as you may think I am, as I might sound.....I really can't articulate what I feel about this, and certainly I am not of an Evangelical bent, but I admire faith......it is sorely lacking today.....and it is enough to bring you to tears. It so seems that faith in God is under attack on all fronts these days and it saddens me.

[Wondergirl]

W.G.: I know you were….but I also want you to know that I am not as crazy as you may think I am, as I might sound.....I really can't articulate what I feel about this, and certainly I am not of an Evangelical bent, but I admire faith......it is sorely lacking today.....and it is enough to bring you to tears. It so seems that faith in God is under attack on all fronts these days and it saddens me.

Exactly the opposite! I'm struggling with severe anemia and have had a lot of medical intervention during the past year. My medivan drivers, my nurses, my hematologist, lab techs. Many open to expressing their faith.

[paraclete]

Exactly the opposite! I'm struggling with severe anemia and have had a lot of medical intervention during the past year. My medivan drivers, my nurses, my hematologist, lab techs. Many open to expressing their faith.

Then let me express mine also, WG, be whole and healed in the name of Jesus

[Wondergirl]

Then let me express mine also, WG, be whole and healed in the name of Jesus

Thank you. Won't happen in this life. Would have to be treated with bone marrow stem cells.

[paraclete]

Thank you. Won't happen in this life. Would have to be treated with bone marrow stem cells.

well in order to receive your healing you have to claim it not deny it

[Athos]

In other words, you have no idea. You really want us to believe that coinage from 71 A.D. shows us how people viewed the book of Revelation in 90 A.D.? Really?

Yes, really. But you'll never know because you don't like wild goose chases. I think you once said you would not click on links. Your loss.

you have no idea how the Christian community in A.D. 90 viewed the book of Revelation.

As a matter of fact, I do. You could know too with some intelligent searching.

I have never denied it, and I don't recall posting any requirements. If I did, then post the quote.

Against my better judgement, I will do as you ask this one time. I do it because it is the crux of the matter. On post #232 on Sep 25 at 7:15am, you wrote, "Those who do not have faith will be judged as they are still in their sins. They will spend eternity in hell."

The only exception I am aware of, and I have said this before, is for children or for those who are mentally unable to be held accountable.

Mentally unable is a new one. You're getting there.

No, I'm attempting to have a thoughtful conversation with someone who is interested in pursuing the truth. I don't think that describes you, but I hold out hope that I am wrong.

Do you still criticize those who insult others?

How God responds to people is not the issue? It is entirely the issue.

No. The issue is how YOU interpret a Bible passage. Nothing more.

.................................. acts, then it is going to be a day that is going to be terrible. Those who have faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ have nothing to fear. Those who trust in their own goodness have everything to fear.

There is another page here for your prosyltizing. This one is for the purpose I said above.

The idea that you were holding onto something until the right time made me laugh.

I'm glad you found me amusing.

[Athos]

In the Catholic religion, its called "The Mystery Of Faith".....it simply means that you follow, whether you understand it or not, whether you know the absolute solution or not......you follow to the end of no ends.

The context for this idea seemed to be that only the faithful can get to heaven. For all others it's the wrong choice with its "absolute finality". Not sure what you mean by that.

But since you mention the Catholic Church, I thought I'd bring you up to date. Catholicism teaches that non-Catholics who lead good lives according to their lights and an informed conscience can get to heaven. I believe that's generally the mainstream Protestant understanding also.

As to Marxists/Bolsheviks not going to heaven because they are atheists, there is a Marxist movement that has God. It's called Liberation Theology founded by the Jesuits in South America..

In Islam, they are forbidden to judge anyone as being in heaven or hell. I heard that from a Muslim who seemed knowledgeable.

[Vacuum7]

Athos: Great points, as usual! By "finality" I mean that if you die, without accepting Jesus, there really is no more/the end of the road is upon you.

I do find it hard to accept Marxist could be anything but Atheist: Marx discussed the treachery of religion in the Manifesto, didn't he, and he is the Granddaddy of Marxism.

Look, I know that way back when, Islam recognized Christianity, so there is a begrudging acknowledgement: They even admit that Jesus existed! Just don't know enough about what you say, so I will have to take your word for it.

[jlisenbe]

Against my better judgement, I will do as you ask this one time. I do it because it is the crux of the matter. On post #232 on Sep 25 at 7:15am, you wrote, "Those who do not have faith will be judged as they are still in their sins. They will spend eternity in hell."

That is the same statement I've been making since this conversation started months ago. Nice try but no cigar for you.

The requirements I was referring to trace back to a question you asked months ago and which you have been pursuing off and on since then such as when you posted just a few days ago, "Do you, or do you not, believe that anyone who does not believe in Jesus will spend eternity in hell suffering punishment for all time? This includes babies and children and people who never heard of Jesus. Your answer, please." It was originally something to the effect of posting a single scripture verse or passage that stated that unbelievers would perish in hell for all of eternity.

Yes, really. But you'll never know because you don't like wild goose chases. I think you once said you would not click on links. Your loss.

As a matter of fact, I do. You could know too with some intelligent searching.

Yes. You know so much that you can't post a single fact. Like I said, I'm convinced you don't have a clue. There is no need to post a link. You could simply make a statement. "I believe that because blah, blah, blah." When you don't do that, it makes it appear that you can't. And that's where I'm fine to leave the whole thing. All the rest is just fluff. You asked for scriptures that show that those without faith in Christ go to hell. I gave them to you. You have to decide for yourself what you believe.

Mentally unable is a new one. You're getting there.

I've said that before. It's not new.

The one thing you seem reluctant to do is to state your own beliefs. What do you think happens to those who die without faith in Christ? For that matter, where is your faith? Have you accepted the Savior? Other than yourself, and as you stated earlier your brain's ability to make judgments, what/who do you believe in?

[Wondergirl]

well in order to receive your healing you have to claim it not deny it

No stem cells in my future. Am too old. The annual transfusions work well. My hematologist is on top of things!

[jlisenbe]

No stem cells in my future. Am too old. The annual transfusions work well. My hematologist is on top of things!

Very sorry to hear of your struggle.

[Wondergirl]

Very sorry to hear of your struggle.

Thank you. No struggle. God is with me. Plus, I'm having a great meeting and talking with and interacting with many very faith-centered medical workers in non-religious settings at clinics, labs, the hospital.

[talaniman]

Your attitude and strength has always been a source of hope and inspiration WG. Good luck and my prayers always my very good friend.

[Vacuum7]

W.G.: I had no idea.....No wonder you seem so strong....because you are! And now I know the historical frame for your name....and, it fits, too, by the way!

People like you, who face so much, make people like me feel small: If ever I face the same type of challenges you do, I hope, no PRAY, that I can summon the kind of courage you have and not become a sniveling pile of goo. I am already a horrible patient when I even catch a cold or flu and, according to my wife, the biggest baby you ever saw.....hate being sick.

I am happy God is with you and you with Him because you are secured and blessed.

[Wondergirl]

W.G.: I had no idea.....No wonder you seem so strong....because you are! And now I know the historical frame for your name....and, it fits, too, by the way!

My WG name is because of my years working in public libraries -- always being challenged by patrons' reference questions (wondering what they REALLY wanted to know) and later challenged by the Dewey Decimal system when I was a cataloger.

[Athos]

Athos: Great points, as usual! By "finality" I mean that if you die, without accepting Jesus, there really is no more/the end of the road is upon you.

Ok, thank you clearing that up. Your compadre JL believes that you go on suffering eternal punishment in hell (if you die without accepting Jesus). That is the basis of my disagreement with him.

I do find it hard to accept Marxist could be anything but Atheist: Marx discussed the treachery of religion in the Manifesto, didn't he, and he is the Granddaddy of Marxism.

Yes, Marx was anti-religion. But that was a very small part of his philosophy. He mainly commented on the economic systems of the world. Many of his ideas are now considered main stream.

Look, I know that way back when, Islam recognized Christianity, so there is a begrudging acknowledgement: They even admit that Jesus existed!

Islam considers Jesus a prophet, not God. Both the Jews and the Muslims deny Christianity is monotheistic because they believe the Trinity is three gods.