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Wondergirl · Mar 29, 2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Tal, in a botched abortion is there a point when the doctor should cease being the killer and start being the healer?

And the fetus is not salvageable but is kept alive and will cost taxpayers thousands during its lifetime. You're good with that? Of course, that fetus probably should never have existed in the first place.

talaniman · Mar 29, 2013, 02:27 PM

What conveys the real message is we kill our own in greater numbers than the terrorists do.

Gun-death tally: Every American gun death since Newtown Sandy Hook shooting (INTERACTIVE). - Slate Magazine

I would post more links but they all paint a gloomy picture, but its great for gun sales at a record level. To bad all those guns have saved no one. The NRA said that was the solution.

speechlesstx · Mar 29, 2013, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

There were 20 allowed to die in Sandy Hook.

Not at all, no one "allowed" them to die, someone made a choice to take their lives and why not when Planned Parenthood and our president can't bring themselves to save a child at their most helpless stage?

speechlesstx · Mar 29, 2013, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And the fetus is not salvageable but is kept alive and will cost taxpayers thousands during its lifetime. You're good with that? Of course, that fetus probably should never have existed in the first place.

Thanks for perfectly bringing my point to 'life.'

Wondergirl · Mar 29, 2013, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Thanks for perfectly bringing my point to 'life.'

So how are you going to keep that fetus from existing? Tell one of those leaders?

cdad · Mar 29, 2013, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

What conveys the real message is we kill our own in greater numbers than the terrorists do.

Gun-death tally: Every American gun death since Newtown Sandy Hook shooting (INTERACTIVE). - Slate Magazine

I would post more links but they all paint a gloomy picture, but its great for gun sales at a record level. To bad all those guns have saved no one. The NRA said that was the solution.

Maybe its because those with the heaviest tolls are the places where gun control is the strictest.

speechlesstx · Mar 29, 2013, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So how are you going to keep that fetus from existing? Tell one of those leaders?

I watched the PP avoid the question for 5 minutes, not interested in changing the subject.The question before you is, is there a point in a botched abortion when the doctor should cease being the killer and start being the healer?

talaniman · Mar 29, 2013, 02:51 PM

The situation is easily remedied if poor females do what educated females do, see their gynecologist sooner. Poor people make different choice when they are young and dumb. PROPER education, guidance and resources.

Sooner or later you will see poverty is the root cause of most of the problems we face.

Wondergirl · Mar 29, 2013, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I watched the PP avoid the question for 5 minutes, not interested in changing the subject.The question before you is, is there a point in a botched abortion when the doctor should cease being the killer and start being the healer?

I watched the questioners obfuscating their questions in all sorts of gobbledy gook.

There should not be a fetus to abort in the first place. That is where we must go with this.

tomder55 · Mar 29, 2013, 03:39 PM

DA: West Philadelphia abortion doctor killed 7 babies with scissors | 6abc.com
This doctor in Philly is probably more the norm than we imagine . Who audits PP ? Clearly the PP lobbyist had no answers to what should be a slam dunk question... if there is a baby alive after a botched abortion ;you choose LIFE ! Duh!!

speechlesstx · Mar 29, 2013, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

DA: West Philadelphia abortion doctor killed 7 babies with scissors | 6abc.com
This doctor in Philly is probably more the norm than we imagine . Who audits PP ? Clearly the PP lobbyist had no answers to what should be a slam dunk question....if there is a baby alive after a botched abortion ;you choose LIFE ! duh !!!

Thanks for answering the question.

Maybe the rest of you can stop the filibustering and diversion and answer it. The question before you is, is there a point in a botched abortion when the doctor should cease being the killer and start being the healer?

speechlesstx · Mar 30, 2013, 04:38 PM

Apparently the PP lady isn't the only one who refuses to answer the question.

talaniman · Mar 30, 2013, 06:00 PM

Your question yesterday is good one, and led me through the laws of many states including ours, and all can find are many lawsuit for a botched abortion and even one where the child lived and the doctor got sued for child support.

I can only give my opinion since it seems to be in the hands of the physician, but one would hope the premature child, no matter the age would be given the care of a newborn and given the chance to survive. Hoping that no complications are present to prevent a good quality of life.

The chances may be small or the expenses large and I know many hardships may lay ahead, but if there is life, then you give it a chance. Outside the woman's body it's a child that's been born.

That's just me, and sorry no links or facts, just my own feelings.

tomder55 · Mar 31, 2013, 04:15 AM

here is where medical ethics is taking this debate .
After-birth abortion: why should the baby live? -- Giubilini and Minerva -- Journal of Medical Ethics

"Doctor " Alberto Giubilini asks 'why should a new born baby live ?'.“The newborn and the fetus are morally equivalent”. The real issue, he says, is not whether they are technically alive but whether society wants them to live.

If criteria such as the costs (social, psychological, economic) for the potential parents are good enough reasons for having an abortion even when the fetus is healthy, if the moral status of the newborn is the same as that of the infant and if neither has any moral value by virtue of being a potential person, then the same reasons which justify abortion should also justify the killing of the potential person when it is at the stage of a newborn.

If euthanasia of babies is permissible because of a cost factor determination (as is often the case in abortions ) ;then why restrict it to babies . Forget death panels deciding to refuse treatment to the infirmed .Why not makes the call to wack them too ? After all,we are paying for their care .

speechlesstx · Mar 31, 2013, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Your question yesterday is good one, and led me thru the laws of many states including ours, and all can find are many lawsuit for a botched abortion and even one where the child lived and the doctor got sued for child support.

I can only give my opinion since it seems to be in the hands of the physician, but one would hope the premature child, no matter the age would be given the care of a newborn and given the chance to survive. Hoping that no complications are present to prevent a good quality of life.

The chances may be small or the expenses large and I know many hardships may lay ahead, but if there is life, then you give it a chance. Outside the womans body its a child thats been born.

Thats just me, and sorry no links or facts, just my own feelings.

Thanks, Tal.

speechlesstx · Mar 31, 2013, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

here is where medical ethics is taking this debate .
After-birth abortion: why should the baby live? -- Giubilini and Minerva -- Journal of Medical Ethics

"Doctor " Alberto Giubilini asks 'why should a new born baby live ?'.“The newborn and the fetus are morally equivalent”. The real issue, he says, is not whether they are technically alive but whether society wants them to live.

If euthanasia of babies is permissible because of a cost factor determination (as is often the case in abortions ) ;then why restrict it to babies . Forget death panels deciding to refuse treatment to the infirmed .Why not makes the call to wack them too ? After all,we are paying for their care .

Sickens me that whether a child should live is up for debate.

talaniman · Mar 31, 2013, 05:25 AM

The sooner you get medical support it seems, the better the outcomes. The options are better, so is the care. You want to do away with PP, then make them unnecessary, especially through resources, and education. A woman with means doesn't wait for 20 weeks to handle her business, its mostly over and done before 12.

speechlesstx · Mar 31, 2013, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

The sooner you get medical support it seems, the better the outcomes. The options are better, so is the care. You want to do away with PP, then make them unnecessary, especially thru resources, and education. A woman with means doesn't wait for 20 weeks to handle her business, its mostly over and done before 12.

I think wondergirl's answer is a license to parent.

paraclete · Mar 31, 2013, 05:43 AM

Yes well you need a licence to marry so why not a licence to conceive, that way having a child out of wedlock would be a felony, short of puts the right emphasis on things and maybe abortion would become a felony to, as it should be

excon · Mar 31, 2013, 05:52 AM

Hello again,

If you outlawed abortion, you won't get RID of it. You'll only drive it underground. Lot's of people will DIE as a result.

You people REALLY did think you could outlaw pot, and it would just magically go away, didn't you?? Was that DUMB?? It was.. Is outlawing abortion dumb? It IS.

excon