[arcura]

adam7gur,
I agree with you 100% on that.
Tom is and has often used and read Scripture they way he wants it to be rather than what it really says.
That's very typical of the fundamentalist way.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Not you Tom , just your way of thinking!

I will not apologize for refusing to go beyond what God's word says. Now if you want to convince me of your interpretation, get into scripture rather than attacking the person.

[lighterrr]

Not you Tom , just your way of thinking!

I agree that we are all God's within our right as we where created in the Creators image

[adam7gur]

lighterrr
Help me understand better.
Do you mean God's or gods?

[adam7gur]

Fred
I have seen this happening many times and it is not the person that annoys me , but the behavior.I myself am no better than Tom or anyone else but ''am I my brother's keeper?'' , yes I am and so are you and everyone.
If you help me see something wrong inside me , I will be thankfull.
May God bless you my brother, and Tom and everyone!

[sndbay]

God Himself in Scripture in Psalm 82:6clearly says '' I said , you are gods and sons of the Almighty '' and Jesus in John 10:34 repeats those same words testifying their truth!

adam7gur,

With a heart of love for God, and the hope of doing HIS will, I believe the teaching of Psalm 82:6 is concerning those who represent God's Will in the judgement over evil to provide justice to mankind.

The scripture verse of John 10:34 is teaching a detail fact concerning the will of God. (Note Jesus said verse 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

When we read in verse (35 NOTE:If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken) Here Jesus brings this to their attention because He wants them to realize that HE, HIMSELF does the will of HIS Father to show conviction, and fulfillment to the WORD of God, that was sent, as verse 34 said, unto whom the word came / representing the Father's Will coming to who He has called upon to judge His people.
Christ always did HIS Father's Will! And also shows how we should follow Christ, and acknowledge the truth in confessed belief that Christ is the begotten Son of God. WE are servants set free to do as Christ did in the Father's Will, because the word comes to us as servants representing the Will of our Father.

Reference: Ex 22:28 shows the gods, are as the rules representiing God in judgement of the people.

So going back to Psalms 82 God has made it clear that He has judge those who are gods, and God is finding fault in how they are judging HIS people. Verse 82:3 goes to says how God's will is that they judge the poor, fatherless in justice of their own needs. God's will is that the judges representing HIM, will do HIS will to rid the people out of the hands of wickedness.

Psalms 82:7 says they shall die like men and fall like princes so please refer: Numbers 16:2

Reminding ourselves always: But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. (Luke 6:35-36)

[Tj3]

Fred
I have seen this happening many times and it is not the person that annoys me , but the behavior.I myself am no better than Tom or anyone else but ''am I my brother's keeper?'' , yes I am and so are you and everyone.
If you help me see something wrong inside me , I will be thankfull.
May God bless you my brother, and Tom and everyone!

Again, if adhering to scripture annoys you, that is not my problem.

Secondly, you may not have noticed, but there have been a large number of threads shut down for people going after other people rather than adhering to the topic, and if you continue, I fear that this thread may have the same fate. If you don't like me - that is too bad, stay with the topic.

[Tj3]

Ps 82
God stands in the congregation of the mighty;
He judges among the gods.

So far so good...

2 How long will you judge unjustly,
And show partiality to the wicked?
Selah

Thses gods judge unjustly and favour the wicked! Are these sanctified persons, or is this an endorsement of these "gods"?

3 Defend the poor and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy;
Free them from the hand of the wicked.

God tells them what they need to do, which suggests that they are currently doing none of the above or God would not need to mention it.

5 They do not know, nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are unstable.

They do not understand, they are unstable and walk around in darkness. Are these sanctified persons, or is this an endorsement of these "gods"?

6 I said, "You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.

Next God tells us how he will judge these "You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.

Next God tells us how he will judge these "...

7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes."
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth;
For You shall inherit all nations.
NKJV

Where is the endorsement of the belief that men are gods? Are these the type of giods that men desire to become:

- Unjust
- wicked
- unstable
- lacking understanding
- unstable
- walk in darkness

Further, I note the use of John 10:34 previous by those defending this belief. Please note that in John 10:26, we are told something else about these "...........

7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes."

John 10:26-28
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
NKJV

These "gods" are not saved, and do not follow Jesus.

Hardly an endorsement. Jesus is condemning them by reference to Ps 82, as unjust judges.

[sndbay]

I agree that we are all God's within our right as we where created in the Creators image

Off thread...

The image of God is righteousness, It is an evident idenity of 3 that are righteous. (Genesis 1:26 plural in our, and in likeness in spirit.) Father... SON... Holy Spirit...

We have been sent the Word as a calling to that righteousness. That Word was made flesh to show us the way. God gave all power and dominion to HIS begotten Son, Christ Jesus, because when mankind was created, they were given dominion over this earth, "HOWEVER" they were beguided by satan and fell to wickness. (mankind then was no longer in the image of God)

Christ set us free from that curse, HIS blood paid the price and gives us grace/love from Our Father to follow HIS WORD, HIS WILL in HIS SON = EMMANUEL

Free choice to answer that calling, and come to the WORD profitable in godliness.

Be ye holy for I am HOLY (1 Peter 1:16)

[lighterrr]

lighterrr
Help me understand better.
Do you mean God's or gods?

God. Singular, I meant to say that god lives within us. So every human being has the spirit of the almighty God dwelling within.

[Tj3]

God. Singular, I meant to say that god lives within us. So every human being has the spirit of the almighty God dwelling within.

Scripture says that it is only those who believe in Jesus:

John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
NKJV

But unbelievers cannot receive the Holy Spirit:

John 14:16-17
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
NKJV

[sndbay]

Scripture says that it is only those who believe in Jesus:

John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
NKJV

But unbelievers cannot receive the Holy Spirit:

John 14:16-17
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
NKJV

True because it is said NOW we have hope.. Acts 2:26-28 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. KJV

Acts 2:29-32 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. KJV

Acts 2:33-35 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

When we believe in The WORD of GOD, and when we confess Christ as GOD begotten Son, then we can be baptized into newness of life. A life of righteousness in which Christ dwells within you, HIS righteousness that offers you death of this world, and able to rise as He did raise.

Baptized when Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The Word Of God

[arcura]

adam7gur,
Thanks.
I do believe as you do believe on this.
We are gods, some good, some bad.
Fred

[classyT]

Fred,

Huh?? Gods? Come ON! Surely that isn't a catholic teachng? We are human beings in need of a savior. We are ALL "BAD" if you want to use that term.. there is NONE that is good... except for Christ Jesus who IS GOD.

[Tj3]

Fred,

huh???? gods? come ON! surely that isn't a catholic teacihng? we are human beings in need of a savior. We are ALL "BAD" if you want to use that term..there is NONE that is good...except for Christ Jesus who IS GOD.

Unfortunately, Classy, it is a Catholic teaching. Here is a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, published by the Roman Catholic Church:

460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.

I copied this directly from the Vatican website.

It is, however, not Biblical.

[arcura]

Classyt.
Tj3 posted what I would have and it IS biblical as has been posted here in this thread.
Others just want to interpret it their way rather than as Jesus interpreted it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Classyt.
Tj3 posted what I would have and it IS biblical as has been posted here in this thread.
Others just want to interpret it their way rather than as Jesus interpreted it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

If it is Biblical, then Fred, show us where scripture endorses the belief that men are gods (or as the CCC says, that men are God).

As we have shown, Psalm 82 is a condemnation of that belief, and Jesus referred to it in John 10 to condemn the actions of those unbelievers who judged the Son of God falsely. No interpretation - it is Jesus' own words.

[arcura]

Tj3.
You have shown nothing that changes what the CCC said.
That I believe yoy can believe as you wish.
I'm going to bed now and I'll pray for you.
Fred

[Akoue]

If it is Biblical, then Fred, show us where scripture endorses the belief that men are gods (or as the CCC says, that men are God).

As we have shown, Psalm 82 is a condemnation of that belief, and Jesus referred to it in John 10 to condemn the actions of those unbelievers who judged the Son of God falsely. No interpretation - it is Jesus' own words.

Hebrews 12.10: "in order that we may share <or: participate> in his holiness".

2Peter 1.4: "may become participants of the divine nature" (FYI: the divine nature is divinity--so we will participate in God's divinity).

1Corinthians 15.28: "so that God may be all in all [hina he ho theos ta panta en pasin]".

Ephesians 1.10: "as a plan for the fullness of time, to gather up all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth".

Acts 3.21 on apokatastasis. See Matthew 17.11, also on apokatasis.

This is an important issue, and it is directly relevant to the topic of the thread since it speaks to the question concerning what we are predestined for. The answer is given quite explicitly at 2Peter 1.4: Participation in the divine nature. In Greek this is called theosis. Don't make the mistake I have seen some fall into, of confusing theosis with the (Mormon) idea that we are to become gods in our own right. It is rather the idea that we are to become one with God, with the Divine nature. The oneness with God made possible by Christ isn't merely the harmony of our will with that of our Creator; the oneness with God which we are to enjoy is deeper than that. The perfection of our sanctification (a process which has already begun, of course) will come with our transformation, the transformation of our nature through unity with the Holy Trinity.

Note also that the Catholics, Orthodox, and others who believe in theosis are not as a rule adherents of the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura, a doctrine we recently saw you unable to vindicate. So, if your complaint is that theosis is not scriptural I would point out two things:

1. The above scriptures comport with one another to provide scriptural grounds for the doctrine of theosis, particularly when taken together with the teachings of the early Church regarding them. (The fifth book of Irenaeus's Adverus haereses, composed in the second century, is particularly helpful here.)

2. Scripture is not the sole authority and standard of truth in matters of doctrine and discipline--a fact that was recently brought vividly to light in the religious discussions forum where we saw (a.) that Scripture itself instructs us to uphold and abide by teachings that are outside Scripture* and (b.) that the doctrine of sola scriptura is itself an un-Scriptural man-made tradition. Recall that the only Scripture you were able to offer in defense of sola scriptura was a misreading of 2Timothy 3.14-17. That you had misunderstood (or perhaps consciously misrepresented--there's no way to know which) this passage was demonstrated repeatedly and was explained to you by a number of people, including a recent sola-scripturist. You have been unable to provide Scriptural vindication for your sola-scripturist commitments and so it really isn't at all reasonable of you to demand that others conform to those commitments. When you abandon that portion of God's revelation that has been given to us via Tradition, you severely limit your ability to reach a proper understanding of Scripture.

* The full import and proper understanding of the above-cited Scriptures would count as an authoritative teaching that is itself outside of Scripture.

[Tj3]

Tj3.
You have shown nothing that changes what the CCC said.
That I believe yoy can believe as you wish.
I'm going to bed now and I'll pray for you.
Fred

So you do believe that man becomes God?