[paraclete]

So Turkey has shown its hand with a plan to create a buffer zone in Northern Syria which will no doubt allow them to control the kurdish population and surprise, surprise who would appear to be complicit in such a deal

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33681215

You have to feel sorry for the kurds, they would be feeling very used at this point

[tomder55]

You have to feel sorry for the kurds, they would be feeling very used at this point

Yes they have been screwed by everyone for centuries. They' were screwed by Sykes-Picot treaty . The Kurds have been screwed by the Arabs, Persians ,Turks ;and now the emeror's US .

[paraclete]

Yes they need a Salahadin to emerge again

[paraclete]

That news headline couldn't have said more about the US decision to partner with Turkey in the Syrian conflict. This could mean they actually swap one sunni muslim adversary for another as Turkey targets US allies in the fight against IS or daesh

ISIS: Turkey joins US in fight against terrorists

The US may be playing into daesh hands by allowing their advesaries the kurds to be targeted. Anything that weakens opposition to daesh is not the way to go as it may allow daesh to breakout of Mosul and take more of northern Iraq. A daesh victory there is a victory for Turkey in their fight against Kurdish nationalism and Turkey's targeting of the kurds places them squarely on the side of daesh. Should Turkey become destabilised by a kurdish insurrection an opportunistic daesh could make incursions into turkish territory. Daesh now control part of the turkish border meaning there must be cooperation between daesh and turkey for border crossings to be made

[tomder55]

That news headline couldn't have said more about the US decision to partner with Turkey in the Syrian conflict. This could mean they actually swap one sunni muslim adversary for another as Turkey targets US allies in the fight against IS or daesh

ISIS: Turkey joins US in fight against terrorists

The US may be playing into daesh hands by allowing their advesaries the kurds to be targeted. Anything that weakens opposition to daesh is not the way to go as it may allow daesh to breakout of Mosul and take more of northern Iraq. A daesh victory there is a victory for Turkey in their fight against Kurdish nationalism and Turkey's targeting of the kurds places them squarely on the side of daesh. Should Turkey become destabilised by a kurdish insurrection an opportunistic daesh could make incursions into turkish territory. Daesh now control part of the turkish border meaning there must be cooperation between daesh and turkey for border crossings to be made

The Turks are playing a double game. There is no doubt that they have helped the IS under the guise of them being anti-Assad forces . The fact they get a wink and nod from the US while taking a wack at the Kurds is a bonus to them.

[paraclete]

Yes once again the US has strange bedfellows, lots of end justifies the means thinking implicit in allowing the Turks to wack the Kurds. It is a pity if you are not in the NATO club, you are fair game and the beauty of it is, they are your allies so no recriminations.. Daesh are sunni muslims no doubt helped by many until they become an embarrassment. Proxy wars are dirty politics. Maybe this will become an arab/turk stouch, as the turks are allies this is an excuse for international boots on the ground, you can bet that at the end of it it will be hard to find a rebel group anywhere

I expect Obama is polishing up his peace prize, there is not much else left in his legacy

[paraclete]

Is it just me? or is it that the urgency appears to have gone out of dealing with Daesh? I expect stalemate does that to you when another surge isn't in the offering. I understand a little of the ME and the fighting season appears to be spring and autumn, while the rest of the year is either too hot or too cold, meanwhile these terrorists are given the opportunity to consolidate their position and the world is flooded with refugees. Iraq and the shiia have proven to be paper tigers and we are back to the position that the artificial union that is Iraq should give way to the reality that there are three distinct groups or nations, Kurdistan, Sunnistan and Shiiaistan who are capable of governing themselves but not for the greater good

[talaniman]

Yeah its just you. Hard to focus on the just ME when so many other things are going on around the globe. Big fires in the US, China blowing up, and terrorists in Bangkok, to name a few are distracting.

[paraclete]

Fires in the US, didn't hear about that, had some of our own, didn't make the international news, as you said too many other things going on. Yes China inevietably reaps from corruption and poor safety standards, tons of sodium cyanide stored with ammonium nitrare who would have thought, and terrorists well that's not new. You see tal I sort of scan the whole news front and I sort of think the actions of thousands of terrorists affecting the lives of millions might contain some interest but I expect it quickly gets old when after all there are riots nearby

[paraclete]

News has reached us that an airstrike took out a major daesh leader in Iraq and this has helped to stall the daesh offensive. I wonder, whatever happened to carpet bombing. Surely when you know you have a large number of the enemy in a particular place it is an offensive weapon

[tomder55]

Fires in the US, didn't hear about that, had some of our own, didn't make the international news, as you said too many other things going on.

mismanagement by the National Forest Service .Too much undergrowth ;not enough controlled burns and logging .
I could save the government a lot of money . Let the wild fires burn except where they threaten residential areas .

[talaniman]

Just has to be mismanagement and not budget cuts or the weather??

[tomder55]

the weather is a contributory factor. The truth is that if nature was permitted to work it's magic . Smaller fires would've naturally started and would've cleared out much of the underbrush that fuels these larger fires. Yes it is mismanagement ;the unintended consequences you keep talking about .

In their defense ,they are constantly under pressure by envirowacko organizations who oppose control burns ,grazing ,logging on public lands.

You talk about funding ;but the truth is that the healthy forest initiative was passed to remedy the situation we are in today . But instead ,the law has been tied up in one court after another .So what happens is that all the growth fuels these fires that destroy not only the forests ,but also the endangered species the envirowackos claim to want to protect.
Perhaps if they were doing their jobs properly and competently ,funding would be available to them from the money saved funding fire fighting units .
Past Forest Mismanagement Helps Spawn Megafires | Jefferson Public Radio

.

[paraclete]

Staying off theme for a moment fire is a great management tool but it takes a skilled hand to avoid it becoming a problem, we often have fuel load burns get out of hand if the wind shifts or rises but even with that you cannot stop big fires happening, all it takes is lightning or an idiot

Could we apply the same theory to dealing with daesh, a coordinated number of small strikes to burn out the underbrush and prevent them from massing

[tomder55]

I'm more into the Curtis Lemay solution.

[paraclete]

Forgive me Tom if I'm not up on the finer points, and that places you politically too, but isn't that what I suggested or do you just want to level any city held by daesh? Your solution suggests the civilian population is the enemy, whereas the enemy is the same enemy that existed in 2003 with a somewhat different focus. The shiia Iraqi's are actually fighting the sunni baathists with some very changed fundamentalist ideals. They created this situation so what? Should the sunni population pay? the Sunni Baathist are vowed not to stop until they take Baghdad and thus the Iraqi government. You and I both know that means genocide they will settle all their old scores

The question we have to ask is has this become a conventional war where massed armies can have at it? Daesh took territory because the Iraqi army wouldn't fight, they were cowered, probably by suicide bombing and I cannot see anything has changed. Daesh have filled a vacuum in both Iraq and Syria and recently their turkish allies provided them with air power. I think we should all withdraw from this islamist double game, protect the Kurds and let the locals handle it.

[talaniman]

I think what Tom wants is 100,000 troops and a trillion bucks just to get started.

[paraclete]

No Curtis Lemay believed he could win by saturation bombing and he almost proved it, he wants 100 B-42 to kill 100,000 civilians and Daesh is just collateral damage. I have no doubt that would suit Iraq too. Pacify the criticism with military force, that is what actually allowed daesh to gain a hold in Iraq. I don't know why they don't use that solution on Racca

[tomder55]

Forgive me Tom if I'm not up on the finer points, and that places you politically too, but isn't that what I suggested or do you just want to level any city held by daesh? Your solution suggests the civilian population is the enemy, whereas the enemy is the same enemy that existed in 2003 with a somewhat different focus. The shiia Iraqi's are actually fighting the sunni baathists with some very changed fundamentalist ideals. They created this situation so what? Should the sunni population pay? the Sunni Baathist are vowed not to stop until they take Baghdad and thus the Iraqi government. You and I both know that means genocide they will settle all their old scores

The question we have to ask is has this become a conventional war where massed armies can have at it? Daesh took territory because the Iraqi army wouldn't fight, they were cowered, probably by suicide bombing and I cannot see anything has changed. Daesh have filled a vacuum in both Iraq and Syria and recently their turkish allies provided them with air power. I think we should all withdraw from this islamist double game, protect the Kurds and let the locals handle it.

maybe the 1940s was a more logical time . At least LeMay took it out on the civilian population of the enemy . Does anyone shed a tear for those lost by the Allied air raids of Caen ? Allied bombing of Normandy caused at least 50,000 civilian casualties .... and these were the people we were liberating .

[paraclete]

But these are Muslims Tom you would be accused of being terrorists and genocidal maniacs and besides, Daesh hasn't actually attacked you other than the assassination of an american prisoner. It you did it you would have every muslim howling for your blood.. Now when they get to Baghdad and take out the american embassy...