[NeedKarma]

I would weep for your seniors if the nursing homes were a totally unregulated free market industry.

[excon]

Hello again, tal:

Can you elaborate on your point?

The point he's making is that the PATIENTS and their family's need to be the ones paying the nursing home bill...

Oh, that's right. If that were the case, the nursing homes would go broke, and granny is gonna die in your spare bedroom, or on the street.. Are YOU gonna be the one cleaning up after granny?

excon

[speechlesstx]

No, the point I'm making is it is you guys who keep trying to convince us of the wonderful benefits of a government nanny. What was it you wanted me to be thankful for, the government protecting me from lead based paint? Tal is always wanting me to be thankful for, the government protecting us from all manner of bad stuff.

Yet, neither of you want to acknowledge the government isn't protecting our dads and grandmas?

[talaniman]

I don't believe I have ever told you to be grateful, but having been responsible for many elderly relatives I can tell you the government only does so much, and you have to do the rest. Its an overwhelming every day endeavor be it a nursing home, or in their home.

I have been through the process many times. Still going through it. It is what it is.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

Yet, neither of you want to acknowledge the government isn't protecting our dads and grandmas?

Compared to who??? It's YOUR side who wants to give 'em vouchers and cut 'em loose...

excon

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:
Compared to who??? It's YOUR side who wants to give 'em vouchers and cut 'em loose...

excon

How did we get from protecting seniors in nursing homes to education? Obviously the government isn't doing such a great job at that either, and prefers to force children to stay in failing schools.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

The right wing FIX for Medicare, written by Paul Ryan, was, and still IS, a VOUCHER system.

excon

[talaniman]

Your state and local governments are responsible for both issues. The feds write checks. Your blame is a bit misplaced, that's what I was pointing out in previous links that you totally ignore. Who made the schools fail?

[speechlesstx]

Your state and local governments are responsible for both issues. The feds write checks. Your blame is a bit misplaced, that's what I was pointing out in previous links that you totally ignore. Who made the schools fail?

I said either way it was a government failure, but you know damn the role the feds plays. From your own link I allegedly ignored.:

State governments oversee the licensing of nursing homes. In addition, States have a contract with CMS to monitor those nursing homes that want to be eligible to provide care to Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries. Congress established minimum requirements for nursing homes that want to provide services under Medicare and Medicaid. These requirements are broadly outlined in the Social Security Act (the Act). The Act also entrusts the Secretary of Health and Human Services (DHHS) with the responsibility of monitoring and enforcing these requirements. CMS, a DHHS Agency, is also charged with the responsibility of working out the details of the law and how it will be implemented, which it does by writing regulations and manuals.

Now what part of that absolves the feds?

[talaniman]

I absolve no one but the responsibility is a shared one. You would be the first to holler if the feds came and closed those funk a$$ nursing homes down, but you sure support the state closing abortion clinics right now.

[speechlesstx]

In other words they are all government regulated just as I said, and not only that but the feds are 100 percent responsible for enforcing their requirements for any facility that accepts Medicaid/Medicare.

But think about it Tal, why would I holler about anyone shutting down "those funk a$$ nursing homes?" Did I somehow leave the impression I'm pro-elderly abuse?

[talaniman]

the feds are 100 percent responsible for enforcing their requirements for any facility that accepts Medicaid/Medicare.

No they are NOT, the state has sole responsibility for licensing and that means the feds just go by what the state says. That's what the links say. Now if you want the feds to get in your state business just say so. But don't selectively blame the feds for what the state is supposed to do.

I mean you can close abortion clinics for safety, but not elderly care homes for the same reason? WHY is that?

[speechlesstx]

No they are NOT, the state has sole responsibility for licensing and that means the feds just go by what the state says. That's what the links say. Now if you want the feds to get in your state business just say so. But don't selectively blame the feds for what the state is supposed to do.

Um, this is surreal. Yes the state licenses nursing homes, the state is still GOVERNMENT which is what I said. Are you denying the state is GOVERNMENT?

Additionally, what I said was IF they want to accept Medicaid or Medicare they also have to adhere to federal standards, based on regulations and manuals written by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services and monitored and enforced by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, under contract with CMS. Are you denying this from your own source? Either way they are still government regulated so I can only assume you want to shift all blame to the states, which matters not to my point.

I mean you can close abortion clinics for safety, but not elderly care homes for the same reason? WHY is that?

This is even more surreal. Where in the hell are you getting the idea I wouldn't come down like a ton of bricks on deficient nursing homes? You certainly did not get it from me so why are you repeating this drivel? You think I want them to abuse my dad or what???????

I mean seriously, read my words - don't put them in my mouth. Painting me as a defender of "funk a$$ nursing homes" is below the belt nasty.

[Tuttyd]

Speech, your original article was about nursing homes both private and public failing to do their job properly. All these nursing homes are overseen by government regulators with the idea that they meet a standard that is acceptable.

Clearly the regulators failed to conduct proper inspections and half the blame lies with them. The other half of the blame lies with the private and public nursing homes. Why?

Because in the first instance it is up the nursing home to set up a practice that attempts to meet the regulations that exist. There is no excuse for setting up a practice that doesn't, or can't meet the standards and then blame the regulators for not doing their job. It is a shared responsibility.

[speechlesstx]

Ok, it is a shared responsibility. I'm not the one trying to excuse some of those responsible.

[paraclete]

the people who are responsible are those who are derelect in their duty of care, you are trying to make the government responsible, but all they can do is enforcement which is an after the event activity

[speechlesstx]

the people who are responsible are those who are derelect in their duty of care, you are trying to make the government responsible, but all they can do is enforcement which is an after the event activity

Clete, I agree that ultimately it is the provider that is responsible but you're missing the point. These lefties here have been arguing about government protecting us from those greedy corporations that would do us harm, but when it's demonstrated that this same government is not protecting us they shift the blame. They can't have it both ways.

[paraclete]

no speech you're right., but let's stop knocking the government for a while and start knocking the true offenders, the selfseeking capitalists who put profit before care, who prey on the unfortunate and infirm

[speechlesstx]

I won't stop knocking the government, they have not demonstrated at all they have my best interest at heart. This regime has made it clear that politics and power come before the people. At least with the greedy capitalists I have a choice.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

I won't stop knocking the government, they have not demonstrated at all they have my best interest at heart.

I couldn't agree more.

excon