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jlisenbe · May 3, 2020, 06:46 PM

Where? How about this statement? "I accept the correct translation and interpretation of scripture." You said you accept the scriptures. I asked you to look at about fifteen of them and comment on them. You declined which is fine. I was just interested in what your response would be.

paraclete · May 3, 2020, 06:47 PM

give it up , jl, it has become boring

Wondergirl · May 3, 2020, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Where? How about this statement? "I accept the correct translation and interpretation of scripture." You said you accept the scriptures. I asked you to look at about fifteen of them and comment on them. You declined which is fine. I was just interested in what your response would be.

That request was as clear as mud.

I told you I accept the correct translation and interpretation of scriptures. You can't just fling a list of verses at me without any mention of which version they're from. Plus, I had no idea that was what you wanted of ME. That was always your poke at Athos. And in #177 those verses were listed as your response/challenge to his comment to you.

jlisenbe · May 3, 2020, 07:35 PM

WG, take a look at the scriptures you say you believe on post 177 and let me know what you think.

I would have thought that was pretty clear, but perhaps not. It's fine with me if you don't want to address it. I was just asking. Good night, all.

Wondergirl · May 3, 2020, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I would have thought that was pretty clear, but perhaps not. It's fine with me if you don't want to address it. I was just asking. Good night, all.

That was long after post #177!!!

paraclete · May 3, 2020, 08:27 PM

=jlisenbe;3852462 Good night, all.

If only. jl, these endless enforcements of your opinion become tiresome, and I know you won't answer me, nevertheless it is so

Athos · May 3, 2020, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

That was long after post #177!!!

Another GOTCHA for the Girl of Wonder.

talaniman · May 4, 2020, 05:24 AM

Good luck getting the got to admit he got got. While he ignore the lumps upside his head the many rocks and boulders are but sands in the wind. The conversations would be dull without him, so let's give the old coot his props for consistent opposition to reality that lends entertainment to the lives of us here that enjoy having a target that refuses to duck. (Nothing personal, just an observation...HEHEHE!)

This against the backdrop of a health crisis the dufus puts on the back burner to the economic crisis it has caused, who drops the ball on the health part, and wants us to ignore the growing sick and dying and get back to work. Can we blame JL for seeking the comforts zone of the bible amid this chaos and confusion? I certainly do not. The dufus has shaken everybody's faith in our country, and society to deal with this current crisis.

No doubt we should prepare for more chaos and confusion as the repubs go for the profits over the people like they always do, and ignore the sick and the dying whose numbers will no doubt rise faster.

paraclete · May 4, 2020, 07:00 AM

Tal, no one is asking the obvious, why so many deaths in what is supposed to be the most advanced economy, with magnificent hospitals and doctors? Meanwhile, across the world, in another advanced economy, it didn't happen. Was it the Trump factor as you seem to think? or is it that the B/S finally came home to roost?

Athos · May 4, 2020, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

Tal, no one is asking the obvious, why so many deaths in what is supposed to be the most advanced economy, with magnificent hospitals and doctors? Meanwhile, across the world, in another advanced economy, it didn't happen. Was it the Trump factor as you seem to think? or is it that the B/S finally came home to roost?

The per capita deaths from confirmed cases is among the lowest in the industrialized world. As testing increases identifying more cases, the rate of deaths should stay the same. This indicates strong hospitals and medical staff.

The Trump factor plays a role due to the relatively fewer number of tests performed and the late delay in federal government intervention.

talaniman · May 4, 2020, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Athos

The per capita deaths from confirmed cases is among the lowest in the industrialized world. As testing increases identifying more cases, the rate of deaths should stay the same. This indicates strong hospitals and medical staff.

The Trump factor plays a role due to the relatively fewer number of tests performed and the late delay in federal government intervention.

Could not have said it better or more accurately, and can only add the dufus adherence to repub small government trickle down economics is at the heart of economic suffering felt by the least and most essential of us during this crisis. Case in point the slow provision of PPE for those essential workers as well as lack of support, and enforcement of his own released government guidelines as a requirement for reopening.

The lack of distributing funds for those suffering because of the shutdown is a documented and shameless example of failed incompetent fiscal policy, and claims of an excellent job amid that failure is the biggest dufus factor on display...HE LIES!

jlisenbe · May 4, 2020, 01:37 PM

That was long after post #177!!!

OK. Real slowly this time. WG--- take---a---look---at---the---scriptures---you---say---you---believe---on---post---177---and---let---me---know---what---you---think. Perhaps this would have been clearer. "WG, why don't you take a look at the scriptures (which you say you believe) I posted on post 177 and let me know what you think."

I would have thought that it was plain that there was no suggestion that post 177 was directed at you. You were merely being asked to look at something posted earlier as a point of reference, but next time, and just for you, I will repost the entire text AGAIN so that it will not be confusing.

What is it about you guys and the Bible? I would think, being interested in the truth as you say you are, that you would be happy to do so. For me, I love it, but you seem to be absolutely terrified if anyone suggests that you do. All of sudden the emotional, "Terrain! Terrain!" warning goes off in your heads. And the next thing we know, we are in a grammar school discussion kind of like, "I wasn't in post 177! That was someone else! Oh please, please don't ask me to comment on a verse of scripture! It was like mud!"

Wondergirl · May 4, 2020, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

OK. Real slowly this time. WG--- take---a---look---at---the---scriptures---you---say---you---believe---on---post---177---and---let---me---know---what---you---think.

Now had that been typed in correct English, I might have understood what you were asking. Your misplaced prepositional phrase makes all the difference in how that sentence is understood.

...being interested in the truth as you claim to be...

Yes, I am, but knowing how it goes when I respond to your questions or requests, I really don't care to be put down, shamed, made fun of.

...the emotional, "Terrain! Terrain!" warning....

Is this a Mississippi thing?

jlisenbe · May 4, 2020, 02:04 PM

Is this a Mississippi thing?

No. It's an aircraft pilot's thing.

Yes, I am, but knowing how it goes when I respond to your questions or requests, I really don't care to be put down, shamed, made fun of.

You mean like you just did with me. Like that? "Now had that been typed in correct English, I might have understood what you were asking. Your misplaced prepositional phrase makes all the difference in how that sentence is understood."

What you call being put down, shamed, or made fun of is just the give and take of discussion. When you try to appeal to a hugely minority position such as the meaning of the Greek for "homosexual", or positively state that Paul himself was a homosexual, or try to change the meaning of the word "eternal" when no responsible Bible translator agrees with you as Athos did, then you have to be able to respond to that. It's just discussion. I would expect you to do the same thing to me.

Hmmm. Still no comment on those texts. Oh well.

Wondergirl · May 4, 2020, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Hmmm. Still no comment on those texts. Oh well.

That is not proper exegesis. You can do better than this. What exactly do you want to know? What is your REAL question?

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

No. It's an aircraft pilot's thing.

You mean like you just did with me. Like that? "Now had that been typed in correct English, I might have understood what you were asking. Your misplaced prepositional phrase makes all the difference in how that sentence is understood."

I did not shame you!

jlisenbe · May 4, 2020, 02:16 PM

That is not proper exegesis. You can do better than this. What exactly do you want to know? What is your REAL question?

I never suggested the simple listing of scriptures was in any way exegetical. That would be foolishness. It is a simple sampling (alliteration!!) of NT texts concerning hell.

Perhaps I can frame the question this way. Considering such an avalanches of scriptures which clearly reference hell, would you hold that there is no such place as hell, or do you agree that hell does exist as a place of eternal torment?

Wondergirl · May 4, 2020, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I never suggested the simple listing of scriptures was in any way exegetical. That would be foolishness. It is a simple sampling (alliteration!!) of NT texts concerning hell.

Perhaps I can frame the question this way. Considering such an avalanches of scriptures which clearly reference hell, would you hold that there is no such place as hell, or do you agree that hell does exist as a place of eternal torment?

During my long life and after many, MANY hours of study and discussion, I am leaning strongly towards "hell" either as a dysphemism for a place we wish all the people who are evil and whom we hate will be sent when they die OR as a place for retraining (cf. Purgatory). God loves ALL His children. I cannot accept that He would send any of them, no matter how mentally ill or unbelieving or even evil they are (think hereditary vs. environment -- is anyone evil "just because"?), just so they can be eternally tormented.

jlisenbe · May 4, 2020, 02:33 PM

You make no appeal to scripture. That is my biggest problem with your belief. It's also interesting that you want to send people you hate to hell, but your hating them does not seem to make you evil. Where are we told to hate people?

Wondergirl · May 4, 2020, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You make no appeal to scripture. That is my biggest problem with your belief. It's also interesting that you want to send people you hate to hell, but your hating them does not seem to make you evil. Where are we told to hate people?

I didn't say I want to send people I hate to hell!

Your response totally floors me! Did you actually read what I wrote?

jlisenbe · May 4, 2020, 03:32 PM

I read this. Seems pretty clear. You are trying to hide behind the pronoun "we", but don't include me in that. That is your philosophy you are describing. This is all on you.

we wish all the people who are evil and whom we hate will be sent when they die

And there is still no appeal to scripture.