[talaniman]

You of all people have to know that you cannot play to the worst or lowest denominator when identifying a problem and formulating a solution. As long as the game is rigged to consolidate power in the hands of the few, and the many mill around in non participation, we all will dwell in stagnation and non production.

Hollering, screaming, and calling names is but a distraction and a deterrent to compromise, through debate.

[tomder55]

Let me ask ... When Sandanista Bill DeBlasio and the emperor close down charter schools in the inner cities, that have proven to be a great benefit for the students who attend ,are they cow-towing to a special interest (the teacher's union ) ;or are they playing their own 'race card ' ? Or is it that when a choice has to be made between a special interest that supports the Dems ,and what's best for minority students ;the students get the shaft ?
What DeBlasio is doing to minority students is the same thing that George Wallace did to minority students when he stood in front of the doors of the University of Alabama preventing minorities from entering .

As Thomas Sowell asks :

These schools have given thousands of low-income minority children their only shot at a decent education, which often means their only shot at a decent life. Last year 82% of the students at a charter school called Success Academy passed citywide mathematics exams, compared to 30% of the students in the city as a whole.
Why would anybody who has any concern at all about minority young people — or even common decency — want to destroy what progress has already been made?

Charter Schools: Where The Left Exposes Its Anti-Minority Bias - Investors.com

[talaniman]

Two sides to the tory here Tom, and this is a national issue about funding and serving more kids. I have written before about the millions of kids left behind because they didn't win a lottery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/ny...do-battle.html

The advocacy group that organized the rally, Families for Excellent Schools, recently started a multimillion-dollar television ad campaign praising charter schools and calling on the mayor not to hold them back.

Her group is well funded and well paid, so why can't they get their own buildings and not displace current students who didn't win the lottery. I mean 6700 students helped and 1.1 million left behind?

In his campaign last year, Mr. de Blasio took aim at charter schools, saying they had a “destructive impact” on traditional schools. He has promised to charge rent to well-financed charter schools, which are privately run but publicly financed, for using public school buildings, and he has placed a moratorium on future requests for classroom space inside traditional district schools..........Ms. Moskowitz said she feared her clash with the mayor could scare off financial contributors anxious about the viability of charters. But she was unapologetic about her defense of her schools and attempts to keep adding more of them.

The typical privateers growth and profit plan, turning kids into a commodity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/11/ny...rref=education

Hours after facing tough questions on MSNBC, Mr. de Blasio made a surprise appearance at a meeting of a group of charter school executives who had been invited to City Hall, speaking for more than 45 minutes about his approach to education.

So framing the debate around 3 private/charter schools and not recognizing the 30 who were approved would be an omission of the facts. SPIN, to make the big money look better, while it burdens taxpayers. I can't believe you actually fall on the side of a rich corporation that doesn't pay rent. If only public schools could operate under the same condition.

[tomder55]

too bad about the kids not winning the lottery . Why would you deny the many students that do ? Look at New Orleans . Over 70 % of the students are in charters . That is the future for education and will be until the teachers divorce themselves from their corrupt unions .
I'll say it again . You libs are good at throwing the word 'racist' around ,and refuse to see how your own misguided policies are even more so . We are the ones who are looking out for the welfare of the minority students and creating polices that have a proven performance. The only conclusion I can come up with is that progressives want to keep the minority students down and not competitive . The true goal of progressive agenda is to enslave minorities in a culture of dependency .

[talaniman]

Teaching a few for big bucks is no excuse to funnel needed resources from those that cannot win the lottery. That's abandoning No Child left Behind (good idea but no resources behind it from a compassionate conservative, but implementation was entirely local with NO government backing).

Your idea of privatizing the school system for profit has a few holes in it as even you have conceded the broken business model. Surely there can be found a profit sharing formulae for the maintenance of buildings and serving more kids, by private and government cooperation. Why does education have to be so adversarial to work? Kids are not supposed to be a commodity but a priority despite the partisan rhetoric. Creating a revenue stream for privateers should not be the priority.

[tomder55]

even you have conceded the broken business model

I've conceded no such thing unless you are talking about the hopelessly broken public school systems. Stanford Study Says Charter School Children Outperform - Bloomberg

Why does education have to be so adversarial to work?

That's a question to ask the teacher's unions . Who's interest are they serving 1st ?

[talaniman]

Now come on, many teachers unions are working with administrations and local officials around the country. Their input is as valuable as profiteers I would say since so far the business model of schools charter, or public has mixed results. You seem to want an unlimited revenue stream of taxpayer money, which amount to taxpayer subsidies of private corporations.

But then you probably think it's a great idea for profiteers to pay no rent, nor contribute to the maintenance of the buildings they occupy while increasing class sizes of the public sections of the building. I don't, and 6700 kids does not outweigh the 1.1 million who are adversely affected. Buy your own building then and pay for the bus's and make big bucks.

[Tuttyd]

You of all people have to know that you cannot play to the worst or lowest denominator when identifying a problem and formulating a solution. As long as the game is rigged to consolidate power in the hands of the few, and the many mill around in non participation, we all will dwell in stagnation and non production.

Hollering, screaming, and calling names is but a distraction and a deterrent to compromise, through debate.

Exactly, if the actual problem goes undetected then there is little chance of finding a solution.

[Tuttyd]

I've conceded no such thing unless you are talking about the hopelessly broken public school systems. Stanford Study Says Charter School Children Outperform - Bloomberg

"..equivalent to 36 additional days of learning maths.."

"...learned eight more days of reading a year than a pupil in a regular school..."

Does anyone know what these terms mean? I am assuming it is a tool for making a comparison.

[tomder55]

got me ask the egg heads at Stanford .It's a prestigious research university that has churned out 58 Nobel laureates .
Stanford University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[NeedKarma]

got me ask the egg heads at Stanford

You offer a study as proof of something but you do not know what the study means?

[talaniman]

The study means there are some charter schools that are better than others and the least performing get closed at a 20% rate (1 in 5). It doesn't say where those kids go, probably back to a public school, like the ones who lose the lottery for placements in the first place.

[Tuttyd]

The study means there are some charter schools that are better than others and the least performing get closed at a 20% rate (1 in 5). It doesn't say where those kids go, probably back to a public school, like the ones who lose the lottery for placements in the first place.

The other alternative would be to take the best performing kids from the charter schools that are about to be closed and place them in the high performing charter schools. Survival of the fittest.

[tomder55]

as I said ;the libs would deny these children an opportunity to excel.

[talaniman]

Or find better ways to use public school resources, and find more revenue streams for the supporting neighborhoods and citizens. At the heart of the issue and often lost, is the very debilitating economic effects from not just the GFC, but the fiscal policies that have starved the circulation of real capital in many regions of this country.

Its NOT a coincidence that schools are failing as resources become scarce, where cities are also failing from a lack of resources. It's the basic cause and effect of rising costs and no way to raise revenue to keep up. Even in New York with all those rich types, ordinary people are beset by how to allocate the money. The wages of ordinary citizens has not kept up with the rising costs in the more expensive places in the world to live.

[tomder55]

Or find better ways to use public school resources, and find more revenue streams for the supporting neighborhoods and citizens. At the heart of the issue and often lost, is the very debilitating economic effects from not just the GFC, but the fiscal policies that have starved the circulation of real capital in many regions of this country.

Its NOT a coincidence that schools are failing as resources become scarce, where cities are also failing from a lack of resources. It's the basic cause and effect of rising costs and no way to raise revenue to keep up. Even in New York with all those rich types, ordinary people are beset by how to allocate the money. The wages of ordinary citizens has not kept up with the rising costs in the more expensive places in the world to live.

BS we've seen your failed experiments in public education for years Give it up already .. We could line the floors of every school in the nation with gold tiles with all the money your experiments have squandered .

[DoulaLC]

Tuttyd.......It is saying that in the charter schools that they looked at, the students received increased instructional time thought to be equal to having that many extra days of instruction.

[paraclete]

There must be a disconnect here somewhere, we have had private schools as well as public schools since foundation and we don't have the experience of poor outcomes that you seem to experience, this is not to say that the performance of students in underpriviliged areas doesn't lag, but this is cultural and not a criticism of the school system. Funding is always an issue but a centralised system of funding removes local bias and ensures funds are directed where they should be.

[Tuttyd]

Tuttyd.......It is saying that in the charter schools that they looked at, the students received increased instructional time thought to be equal to having that many extra days of instruction.

Thanks for that info.

[talaniman]

BS we've seen your failed experiments in public education for years Give it up already .. We could line the floors of every school in the nation with gold tiles with all the money your experiments have squandered .

That's pretty good from the guys that held the doors open for the bank robbers, and then directed the posse in the opposite direction.